Malahini... Step 1.

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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briand
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Re: Zip or malahini, or ... ?

Postby briand » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:50 am

I don't know how much overlap there is between building boats and aircraft, but EAA just announced that you can download the student version of SolidWorks free if you're a member. It's $40/year, but I've easily gotten my money's worth just by their workshops and magazine.
http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-membershi ... rce-center

I'm still torn between the zip or malahini, but whichever one I go with I want to build three times. Once in CAD, once in a small RC, then the real one. I use Solidworks at work, so I get the take home copy to play with. :D

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Zip or malahini, or ... ?

Postby Bill Edmundson » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:15 am

Alan

We were an AutoCAD house. We had add on 3D packages. We did entire power plants and environmental projects 3D. I can no longer imagine trying to do it 2D. But, I started on the old drawing board.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

Lower
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Re: Zip or malahini, or ... ?

Postby Lower » Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:12 am

Solid works is nice, just watch out putting it on home computers. I don't think it'll get to complex but the helix's and such that we use would crash a home computer. Just FYI
My build, "the drunk drifter" viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29796

Brandlin
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Location: Nr Chester UK / N Wales Coast

Re: Zip or malahini, or ... ?

Postby Brandlin » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:30 am

Ive done a fair amount of freelance design work at home and have full blown solidworks with all the simulation and flow packages and it does just fine. yes, pushing it hard will can slow things you just need to be careful.

Just spent a few minutes putting together a block view of the available space agains a very rough estimate of the malahini outline...

Image

Yellow is structural walls and pillars.
Red are II beam structures supporting the house.
Blue are built in work benches and storage, boiler and other fixed elements.
Green is my current workbench which can be moved.
And the oddly shaped mahogany coloured thing is roughly a malahini boat

Image

Image

Image

its going to be very close. And it looks like no hope of getting it in the garage on the trailer!
Last edited by Brandlin on Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Ibrew2be
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Re: Zip or malahini, or ... ?

Postby Ibrew2be » Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:43 pm

Brandlin:
Just a random thought:

Would it help your problem fitting the trailer into the garage if you had one of those folding trailer tongue devices on the trailer?

Barry
Barry Shantz

Imp built and launched. Thinking hard about Boat 2.0

Brandlin
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Location: Nr Chester UK / N Wales Coast

Re: Zip or malahini, or ... ?

Postby Brandlin » Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:49 pm

Hi Barry,

I'm not sure what you mean by a folding trailer tongue device is? I *think* you mean that the towing end of the trailer folds up? Yeah that may help, but I have less than 7' of head room, so I may not have vertical clearance.

However my main concern with the trailer is width. I have 2.5" of clearance on either side of the boat beam to the door, and the wheels on the trailer will be outside the boat beam?

Also with the boat on the trailer o doubt I'd be able to climb in and work under the low ceiling? Building on a low cradle won't be so bad, but I doubt it's getting stored undercover.

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Ibrew2be
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Re: Zip or malahini, or ... ?

Postby Ibrew2be » Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:58 pm

Brandlin:
Here's an example of what I mean by a folding trailer tongue:

http://www.boatus.com/magazine/trailering/2013/October/how-to-install-a-folding-swing-tongue.asp

It folds horizontally, if you will, not vertically.

I see what you mean about the side-to-side clearance. If the beam of the boat only offers 2.5", I agree that the trailer width may well be too great.

Do you have options for storing the finished boat outdoors?

Barry
Barry Shantz

Imp built and launched. Thinking hard about Boat 2.0

Brandlin
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Location: Nr Chester UK / N Wales Coast

Re: Zip or malahini, or ... ?

Postby Brandlin » Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:04 pm

Ah I see what you mean. Well a folding tongue would help, but looking at the cad image I simply wouldn't be able to use my workshop with the boat in it, I couldn't actually move from one half to the other.

Boat would have to sit on the trailer on my driveway. Probably under a tarp or custom made cover.

And subject us to that awful "car shuffle" problem as the cars couldn't sit side by side on the drive... Hmmm that's gonna make me popular!

Brandlin
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Re: Zip or malahini, or ... ?

Postby Brandlin » Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:09 pm

I've been playing around with clash detect and motion in the cad model and it's possible to turn the boat through 90 degrees in the workshop. That would make it much easier to work on for the build on a mobile form on locking casters.

But when I say "it's possible" I mean by about 25mm. My measurements of the workshop aren't accurate enough to determine if it would be actually possible until I'd built the frames and sheers.

I really don't want a smaller boat...! :? :cry:

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vupilot
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Re: Zip or malahini, or ... ?

Postby vupilot » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:33 pm

Most trailers wheels will be wider than the boat but you can use trailers that are same width and build the bunks over and above the wheels but that may put the boat about 6" higher too.

Would it help if I measured my trailer width? Its probably close to a foot wider than my Zips widest point.

Brandlin
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Location: Nr Chester UK / N Wales Coast

Re: Zip or malahini, or ... ?

Postby Brandlin » Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:09 am

Hi vupilot,

Thanks for the offer. Any trailer I make would have to have the wheels inboard of the maximum beam of the boa just to clear the door frame. As you say, this would mean the boat sitting over the wheels rather than between them and therefore higher. As I have no experience at all of boats it would be good to know the height of your trailer to the boat keel, I can then estimate the overall height. I'm pretty sure height won't be a limiting feature for access to the garage for storage, but it's very probably going to mean that I can't work on the boat while on the trailer. Which means some interesting mechanisms to get boat from cradle to trailer and back!

In addition, a higher position on the trailer will mean having to back further down the slipway to launch. I've never done this but I've been told my local slip way is already pretty steep and quite short. Sounds like fun!

Narrower wheel axle and slightly higher CofG will have detrimental effects on towing but I'm sure they'll be very small. I wonder what uk regulations say about towing... Hmmm...

"Build a boat, there's an idea! Who knew it would get this complicated just housing and moving the damn thing?"

Briand - I missed your post about building the boat three times! We are on the same wavelength! I too had images of driving the boat while my son drove the RC version alongside. I think that's now the plan!

briand
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Location: Auburn, Al

Re: Zip or malahini, or ... ?

Postby briand » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:29 am

I've seen some mechanisms that would adjust trailer wheel spacing on farm equipment. But I suspect that it may not be road friendly.

For the RC side, I was considering it already, as I have a few RC cars and planes. But then I saw vupilot's amazing mini Zip.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14327

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BayouBengal
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Re: Zip or malahini, or ... ?

Postby BayouBengal » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:52 am

I'm presently building a 20'8" inch boat in a 24.5 x 19.5 foot shop. The beam on the boat is 7'9", my shop door opening is only 8 feet, and worse yet, it's located on the long side of the shop which adds greatly to the complexity of moving the boat in or out. The boat is presently on the trailer in the shop. The fenders, wheels, hubs, taillights, and tongue were removed from the trailer in order to get it into the shop. The trailer sits on heavy duty metal casters. My overhead clearance is only 7.5 feet and so there was no way the inboard motor could have been installed while in my shop, so it was job 1 to install it right after the flip because it knew it would take a lot of effort to get the boat and trailer in and out of the shop (one time in and one time out is the plan).

In a nutshell, the working conditions aren't the best. I bump my head frequently, but my wife says she thinks that may a good thing. There's very little room for tools and supplies so most of that is kept in a spare bedroom. And I generally have to do most of the work not physically on the boat outside in the heat because there's not room enough to do it in the shop. I guess what I'm saying is if there's a will, there's a way.

So now that I've vented sharing all my problems, let's finally discuss yours. Looking at your CAD drawing, I think you should be able either strip your trailer as I have, or build a cradle. Either way, you'll want whatever the boat is sitting on to take up less area in all directions than the boat. You'll also want very sturdy 360 degree rotating casters, and yes, these will set you back a few dollars, try to find some used. So back to your CAD drawing, you should be able to move the boat up further into your space, the workbench on the left side of your drawing should not pose a problem because the shear line of the boat will be above it. Once you move it further into your shop, I believe you'll be able to rotate the back end around to the right side (where your bicycle is shown in the photo). You don't actually have to go the full 90 degees, you just need to free up some space so that you'll be able to work on the left side.

On a positive note, when people come into the shop and see my boat, the never fail first question is always, "How are you going to get it out of here?" I can't express how much entertainment I get from seeing their reaction when I suddenly look extremely concerned and respond "Oh crap! I never thought about that."

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Zip or malahini, or ... ?

Postby Bill Edmundson » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:57 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: Jeff

I get the same questions. Alan is on exactly the right track. Think it through now!

Mine comes out of the basement this Saturday and onto the trailer. I Hope! Horizontal move is not a problem. We've done that. Vertical is the concern. Getting it up high enough to get the trailer under it is the concern. I have a plan.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

Brandlin
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Location: Nr Chester UK / N Wales Coast

Re: Zip or malahini, or ... ?

Postby Brandlin » Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:27 pm

Good luck on the move bill. It sounds like a milestone...

BayouBengal - sounds like we share a number of similarities in space restrictions. I think you're right, I will be able to manoevre the boat somewhat on casters, just not on the trailer. I was hoping to be able to back the boat in and drive forwards out with it on the trailer, but that might be impossible :-( unless I remove a bench and put the boat in the other ”bay"...

Anyway, all I'm finding are problems that can be fixed. Not one reason not to do it! :-)


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