Monroe Malahini

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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Cabron
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Canada

Re: Monroe Malahini

Postby Cabron » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:33 pm

3/4 inch overhang is good enough. I used a farriers file to knock it down once it was all glued in place.
You can level it pretty quick with those beefy files

PeterG
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Location: Connecticut

Re: Monroe Malahini

Postby PeterG » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:51 pm

Looks great! What about your scarf joints are you not so pleased with? How did you make them? Oh, and how long were your side and bottom pieces after scarfing? Lots of questions, I know. You passed me when you built your fixture and hung your frames on it :D

I will be scarfing my plywood, 12:1 ratio, doing up to 2 joints (4 sheets) at a time (hopefully) with a router and fixture, with final cleanup with a sander or hand plane. My fixture will double for glue up/clamping before I hang the frames on it. Still waiting on my order of plywood and lumber... and we are in a deep freeze these days...
Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.
Griffin's Law: Murphy was an optimist.

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Monroe Malahini

Postby Bill Edmundson » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:46 pm

Peter

Save yourself some wood. An 8:1 scarf is plenty.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

Thompson
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Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:34 am
Location: Monroe, Ga

Re: Monroe Malahini

Postby Thompson » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:30 pm

Peter
I used two 8 ft pieces with one 2 ft.piece in the middle to make an 18 ft piece. The pieces were cut 32" wide. Mine are about a 12:1. I used a router and jig i saw on utube and finished with a sanding block i made using a sanding belt and a piece of wood cut to fit inside the belt.
When I dry fit them together they seamed to lay niece and smooth. When i glued them together i couldn't seamed to get them as smooth and tight. I made reference marks by drilling a small hole in the mated pieces close the edge and using a #4 finishing nail to line them up. I hope extra coats of epoxy at the seams will smooth things up. I stained before i glue so i can't really do any sanding or if i do I'll sand through stain and that will be hard to touch up. Being a dark might help with touch up if i have to sand through the stain. Roberta wained me about that. Hope that helps.
Lyman

PeterG
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Re: Monroe Malahini

Postby PeterG » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:35 am

Thanks Bill and Lyman! I settled on a 12:1 ratio based solely on the Glen-L plywood boatbuilding book, made for a starting point when figuring materials out. I may back off to 8:1 scarfs as more practical. I too am concerned about the fairness or smoothness of the finished scarf, will try to keep it straight, fair, and aligned with the nail trick too. My boat will be fiberglassed and painted so fairing the scarf joints shouldn't be a problem. The other thing I'm considering is using an 8 ft / 3 ft / 7 ft plywood arrangement (forward to aft) for the sides, looks like that will put the scarf joints near but not on frames 2 and 3, hopefully help fairness.
Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.
Griffin's Law: Murphy was an optimist.

Thompson
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Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:34 am
Location: Monroe, Ga

Re: Monroe Malahini

Postby Thompson » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:15 pm

WHY IS HIND SIGHT ALWAYS 20/20.
20170430_184922.jpg
20170430_184716.jpg

I guess i need to explain. Bright sides now is pretty much out of the question. Several things went wrong. I'll explain as best i can in hopes it will help someone else. First my scraf joints didn't turn out like I'd hope. My carpenter work i think was ok but in the glue up i had to much pressure on the exposed joint and not even pressure on the whole joint. This caused a slight dip and a hump. I had planned to smooth/ even this out with epoxy. And actually did a pretty fare job at accomplishing this. In another thread i had read where someone asked if they needed to remove drips of epoxy. Just sand them smooth or completely removed, would it show when they stained or coated with epoxy. This answer was if not completely removed it might show up as a different color. I read this too late. When i glue my scraf joints the squeeze out i just smoothed out. When i coated the hull before i started the build up on the joints to smooth them out the previous epoxy showed up a different color. My problems didn't end there. I decided to trim some of the ecess below the sheer or above depending on how you look at it. Upside down. When i ran my jig saw over the build up area the epoxy poped lose on that edge. It was about 1/16 to 3/32 thick. The epoxy was hard just not stuck. As i started removing that i notice the surface under neigth was smooth and shiny. I had not sanded or scuffed the surface before i started the build up. Dump mistake. When i got the lose stuff off. And Some of it was stuck like hell. I had a ugly looking mess. I decided the only way to get this fixed was to sand it smooth. Probably should have got on the forum and shouted HELP. Too late now. In sanding it smooth i sanded through the stain and in some spots through the first layer of the plywood. Before i stained i first i asked peoples opinion. Most opinions were stain after. In my mind some i justified i staining before assembling. I guess that says something about my mind. The sides now are smooth. When i close my eyes and run my hand across the joint you can't fell where the joint is.
I believe I'm ready to fiberglass the hull. My advice to anyone reading this who is thinking about building a boat. Don't get impatient!! Go slow. Check and double check. Think things through. I've been in the construction business for over 40 years i know before you stick a shovel in the ground or start nailing two by fours together you have to build it in your head first.
I'm a little disappointed about the bright sides. When i first planned on building this boat i thought painted hull bright top side. I guess thats what I'm back to unless i decide to put a thin veneer on the side. If that's possible. Don't think i want to go there. I'm still loving this whole process. Not discouraged. Had a dream I cut myself and I bleed sawdust.
Lyman

JimmY
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Re: Monroe Malahini

Postby JimmY » Mon May 01, 2017 9:31 am

Hi Lyman,

Sorry to here about your troubles.

If you are now committed to painting the sides, I highly recommend that you "long board" the sides before glassing them. While you may not "feel" the scarf joints with your hand, there still may be a dip or hump at each joint. Use a piece of scrap plywood from your sides (2" to 3 wide x 16 to 24" long), attach some handles, and use 3M 77 to glue sand paper to it. Use this long ways over the joints to find any high or low spots. Also do this to the rest of your sides, especially around any screw heads, to make sure the rest of the sides are fair. Looking at your photos, I can tell that there are highs and lows around all your screw holes. You need to put away the ROS and get out the long board.

With painting, you can fill with epoxy and fillers and it should be pretty straight forward to get the sides fair. With a bright finish, I needed many coats of clear epoxy to build up thickness that could then be sanded fair.

If you do all of this before glassing, it will help reduce the sanding you having to do after the glass and reduce the risk of cutting into the glass cloth.

If you still have your heart set on a bright finish, I was able to vacuum bag 1/42" Mahogany veneer on my Squirt. The process is pretty straight forward. All it takes is time, money, and a little patience.

Keep at it, we've all been there.
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

Thompson
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Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:34 am
Location: Monroe, Ga

Re: Monroe Malahini

Postby Thompson » Mon May 01, 2017 10:56 am

Thanks Jimmy. Used a homemade long board. To fix the joints. It might a little on the stiff side. I also have some Durablocks. Wish there was something easier to sand than epoxy.
Question?? Can you put on too much epoxy before you fiberglass. Thanks again.

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BayouBengal
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Re: Monroe Malahini

Postby BayouBengal » Mon May 01, 2017 11:49 am

For fairing and sanding larger areas, this works pretty well (from the S3 Epoxy Book)
A slick way to fair a large area and avoid a lot of tedious sanding
is to use a serrated trowel like the metal one fl oor tilers use to
spread mastic. Apply the fairing putty using this tool leaving a
series of parallel ridges that stand proud of the surface. Allow the
putty to cure, and then sand the area with a long board. Notice
that all you are sanding is the tops of the ridges, about one fourth
of the total surface area being faired. Sanding dust falls into the
valleys. Once the ridge tops are fair, the area is cleaned of sanding
dust and the valleys are fi lled with fairing compound using
a broad knife with a straight edge. Only a light sanding is then
required for fi nal fairing following cure.

PeterG
Posts: 337
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Location: Connecticut

Re: Monroe Malahini

Postby PeterG » Tue May 02, 2017 6:47 am

Not sure if there is a "too much" amount of epoxy before fiberglass is applied, but I would keep it to the minimum needed to fair the surface. I am sure you figured it out already but just make sure you sand and clean the surfaces to degloss all of the cured epoxy before you apply the fiberglass and resin. That will give a good "tooth" for the new resin to bond to. Sorry your bright finish didn't work out like you wanted but your boat looks great! I got some catching up to do...
Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.
Griffin's Law: Murphy was an optimist.

JimmY
Posts: 499
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Location: Brighton, MI

Re: Monroe Malahini

Postby JimmY » Tue May 02, 2017 9:56 am

Thompson wrote:Question?? Can you put on too much epoxy before you fiberglass. Thanks again.


I second Peter's comment about keeping it to a minimum. My only thought was that if you have to add filler, I would like that under the cloth rather than on top of it.
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

Thompson
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:34 am
Location: Monroe, Ga

Re: Monroe Malahini

Postby Thompson » Thu May 18, 2017 5:55 am

I've been working on getting the sides and bottom faired. Microsheres and epoxy is easier to sand. I had read this but have just now tried it. Guess I'm a slow learner.
Question. How flat is flat. From frame 1 to the transom i have a slight drop, about 1/32", maybe a little more. Should i fix this? Is it enough to effect the ride. Other than this I'm flat to pass frame 3 at the keel and battens. How ever, from frame 3 to 4 there is a rise, about 1/8". Seams i read in another post that others had this same thing. I'm not sure if i need to fix this as well.

Don't know if I've mentioned this before, but i often wonder how anyone built any of these boats with out the forum. I don't how long the forum has been around compared to Glen l. I read alot of post more i post myself. I don't watch much TV anymore. Building this boat had become addicting.

Any help with my questions is always much appreciated.
Lyman

BillW
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Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Monroe Malahini

Postby BillW » Thu May 18, 2017 7:21 am

Lyman, if there is any measurable amount of "rocker" in the aft half of the bottom, especially toward the transom, then it is very
likely to cause the boat to ride like a rocking horse. I would suggest fixing it, with fairing compound, while it's up-side down and
before the glass goes on.
Bill

Thompson
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:34 am
Location: Monroe, Ga

Re: Monroe Malahini

Postby Thompson » Thu May 18, 2017 12:56 pm

Thanks Bill. That's what i was thinking. Better safe than sorry. Besides I love sanding!!! :lol:

Thompson
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:34 am
Location: Monroe, Ga

Re: Monroe Malahini

Postby Thompson » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:36 pm

Haven't posted anything in awhile. No pics. The boat looks about like it did two months ago. I've gotten the fiberglass cloth embedded with two additional coats of epoxy applied. Trying to get it sanded down so I can apply move epoxy. I haven't had much time to work on it with grass cutting and gardening. My wife is a teacher, summers off, our grandchildren are at the house almost every day. They're eight and four. When they are there and want me to play with them, that's what I do. They come first. That are only little once. The day will come before I'm ready for it when they won't want their Papa to play with them.

While I've started this round of sanding I find it ironic that you spend hours, days, weeks and months sanding and filling and fairing and sanding and epoxying and sanding and sanding and sanding to get the hull smooth. Free of dips humps pimples just to cover it with cloth that adds texture with laps in the fabric that causes dips and humps just so you can sand it smooth again.

Ordered my primer, System 3. Hope it's easier to sand. Ordered some 4oz samples of different colors so I can see what they actually look like.

Until next time keep smiling and keep sanding.
Lyman


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