Desperado / Renegade Questions

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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GeauxLSU
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Desperado / Renegade Questions

Postby GeauxLSU » Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:35 pm

Let me start by introducing myself. My name’s Neal and I’m located in San Antonio, Texas. I bought a used copy of Boatbuilding with Plywood about 20 years ago when I was probably 12 or so. I want to finally start my first build along with my daughter. I’m leaning towards the Renegade or Desperado with an emphasis on the Desperado of the 19 foot variety due to its generous beam and cockpit and also simplicity of construction. I also want to stick with an outboard design again for simplicity and hopefully a shorter build time. Neither design seems to have study plans available and I’ve come up with a few questions regarding appropriate outboards for these two designs.

1. The information on the Glen L website doesn’t mention a maximum weight for the outboard on the Desperado but gives a max of 205 hp(which seems like a lot on this boat). Pretty much all the 150’s I see weigh somewhere between 450 lbs(merc 4stroke) on up through 500 lbs. Could anyone shed some light on motor weight limit for this design?

2. The larger Renegade has a max rating of 220 hp and max motor weight of 500 lbs. I see 1 or 2 200’s that are right at 500 lbs but some are closer to 550 lbs. Are these max weights written in stone and if so should I actually be trying to undershoot the maximum by a certain percentage in pursuit of better overall handling? Also, this design can be lengthened 10%. If I elect this option, do I gain any additional weight allowance?

Finally, if anyone has any outboard specific performance data on either design I'd appreciate it. I didn't really find anything relevant on the forum or on the Glen L "How Fast" webpage.

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Dave Grason
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Re: Desperado / Renegade Questions

Postby Dave Grason » Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:39 pm

On these boats it is not about horsepower. Initially, they are both inboard designs and therefore, can handle as much horsepower/torque as any modern V8 can supply. So, really then, your concern would be the horsepower vs the weight on the transom itself. The inboard designs do not depend on the transom to push the boat along.

Usually when the ratings are shown in any given design, they will virtually always err on the side of safety. There is a comfort zone/safety cushion designed in. So, beyond that, if you are concerned it would be a simple matter of building the transom as beefy as you would want. You could add knees, double the thickness of the transom board and any number of other modifications. This is one of those areas in boat building where one can tend to overthink a perceived problem.
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

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sscobra
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Re: Desperado / Renegade Questions

Postby sscobra » Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:53 pm

Neal, welcome to the forum. I don't know anything about outboards so can't be of any help on that question. I just wanted to introduce myself. I am building a Monaco and live in Dripping Springs, TX, just a little southwest of Austin. Another builder, Carl, is building a Vera Cruise, which uses an outboard, lives in north Austin. I am sure Carl would agree when I say we are here if you want to see other builds. Good luck on your build. Skip
Built the Glen-L Monaco, 2016.

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mrintense
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Re: Desperado / Renegade Questions

Postby mrintense » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:26 am

Welcome to the forum Neal,

I live up here in the north Austin area and am building the Vera Cruise. Nice to have another builder in the area. Skip and I have gotten together a few times and I can tell you that his boat is top notch. Both of use a fairly regular on the forum and willing to answer questions that come up.

From the outboard perspective, I am also going this route. I've elected to go with the Evinrude 115 which I feel is more than enough power for my 21 foot design. I beefed up the thickness of my transom and added additional gussets on the transom frame. I've also got blocking on the upper transom connecting it to the sheer. Those changes and the addition of the motor well should, I hope, provide the strength needed to handle the power of the motor. The Evinrude is also fairly light, (it's a two stroke design - but powerful and clean running). Yamaha makes some lighter engines as well but I cannot speak for them otherwise, (no experience or research to speak of).

I've been documenting my build pretty thoroughly in my blog, (see my signature), so feel free to peruse that for references. This is my first boat and my first build, but through the use of learning and help from this forum, I am working my way through the tough parts. Good luck with your build and keep us posted.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Desperado / Renegade Questions

Postby Bill Edmundson » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:50 am

Neal

The Yamaha 115 has a shipping weight of 377#. Sat 400# ready to go.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

GeauxLSU
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Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: Desperado / Renegade Questions

Postby GeauxLSU » Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:11 am

Thanks for all the input Dave, Bill, Skip and Carl. I’ve noticed how much the four of you have contributed to this forum over the years. I’ve read through tons of your posts as well as some of Carl’s blog.

I’ve been doing some more reading/thinking and now I’m struggling to really decide exactly which design I should pull the trigger on. I’d be interested in your thoughts and opinions if you care to share. Ideally I’d like a boat to accommodate 4 adults and two kids. The boat will be used for pulling a tube or skier while everyone else is onboard but also just hanging out on in the coves and swimming other days. I want to stick to designs compatible with outboard power for simplicity of construction and wide beams for maximum cockpit space. I’d like for the loaded boat to be able to cruise in the upper 30 mph range. I’ll be building the boat in a garage very similar to Carl’s. 21 feet deep with a nice 4 inch high raised concrete lip in the back as a bonus. Therefore, length overall should be kept to around 19-20 feet.

I was considering the Desperado and Renegade mentioned above but I’ve also added a dark horse. After reading through Carl’s build I also started to bounce around the idea of a Two Plus minus the cabin. Dash and windshield would be approximately where the Two Plus cabin front windows are with perhaps the two front seats sitting on a raised sole. Then a step down going aft with the rest of the room dedicated to U or L shaped arena seating, maybe a table and a built in cooler connected to a through hull for draining. I have a feeling this idea might not be capable of the performance criteria I mentioned above though without going well over the max hp requiring significant transom modifications.

Carl and Skip, I’ll have to drive up to Austin one weekend soon and check out your builds. Thanks for the offer.

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hoodman
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Re: Desperado / Renegade Questions

Postby hoodman » Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:12 pm

My suggestion would be a Roustabout stretched 10%. The design calls for outboard power up to 135hp. Honda just so happens to sell a 135hp outboard. I believe that amount of power would achieve the performance you are looking for. Also a big open cockpit. It is a fantastic looking hull. I have no regrets, however I would be tempted to build that boat if I were starting all over. Also, in my opinion it is more of a timeless design than the Desperado or Renegade which seem slightly dated. Not trying to knock Glen's designs, they were clearly done at a time when boats of that style were hugely popular.

One thing to possibly think about is that there are not many skiers or tubers that like to be pulled at 40 mph so top speed loaded down with passengers is probably secondary to everyone's comfort and ride quality. I'm guessing I'll be close to hitting 40 in my Geronimo with 90hp. With 135 in the only slightly larger Roustabout I think you'll get what you are looking for.

http://www.boatdesigns.com/17-Roustabout-deep-vee-runabout/products/354/


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