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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:32 am
by DSR
Hi Denon,

I really like the look of the dash insert, I was just going to set mine straight into the dash beam but I might have to rethink that decision now after seeing yours. I was actually toying with the idea of veneering the raised center foredeck on mine instead of all paint too, just to show off that it's a "woodie", but I have a ways to go before I make either decision...... :roll: :lol:

I also just now noticed that the helm is on the starboard side. Was there any particular reason you chose the starboard side?

The subdecking really fills out the look of the boat too. Looks like speed even sitting still! :D

FWIW, I think I would definitely put a butt block reinforcement under the splice in the subdecking. Probably run it forward and aft of the splice for quite a ways so when it flexes, the the whole area does so uniformly and reduce the chances of the epoxy cracking from localized stresses.

The Rampage looks great and I can't wait to see it dressed out with the veneered deck.

Thanks. :D
Dave

Re: Rampage Update 2017

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:40 am
by Bill Edmundson
Dave

If you have clockwise prop rotation the helm goes on the right/starboard side, this is traditional. If you set-up with a counter-clockwise rotation the helm goes on the left/port side.

Bill

Re: Rampage Update 2017

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:01 am
by DSR
Hi Bill,

I agree with you completely under normal circumstances with prop-driven boats, but typically the higher horsepower jets and V-drives usually puts the driver on the port side. In the jets, with the jet drives themselves creating very little torque reaction, this is usually (but by no means always) done to counter the torque reaction of the engine itself.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with placing the helm on the starboard side, I was just being a curious George :D

Thanks
Dave

Re: Rampage Update 2017

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:44 am
by mrintense
Denon, you're making quick and great work of the Rampage. Isn't is cool when you get into a groove and things start coming together? She is going to be a real head turner when you get her on the lake.

Re: Rampage Update 2017

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:27 pm
by Denon Osterman
Ok everyone...the big initial reveal! Still looks filthy without any sanding done...there's epoxy smears and gunk everywhere, etc etc...but getting darn close!

First some answers and responses:

@Dave I like the dash insert too - highly recommended. I think it both looks and performs better than a standard, wooden dash. Helm is on the starboard side because I've never actually seen a boat (in person) with the helm on the port side - I know in a Jet it makes no difference, but all of my driving experience would go to waste if I had to switch things! (it will also, almost always, get docked on the starboard side). I think I'll put in a reinforcement plank underneath as well - I forgot how thni the veneers were, so I don't think they're doing to do much in terms of structural reinforcement...I had quite a few nails "go through" so I have to re-encapsulate the underside anyways :evil:

@Carl - It's fantastic! It's been a while since I've been able to really "get in the zone", but I find it's so much nicer and more productive. The starting and stopping seems to get in the way...and disrupt my whole train of thought all the time. Case in point, I think I got more done over these 4 days than I have all summer... :)

On that note, picture time! The three main topics are the dash / decking area (As a quick memory jog, I'm trying to hide the fact that there's any plywood sub decking), the little transitional / difficult areas, and the overall boat with all veneering. In that order:

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This picture shows the "bottom" and "middle" layer of the fake dash / deck veneer. The plywood gets veneer on the bottom, on it's edge (middle), and will then get it on the top as well with the rest of the decking. By doing this, the plywood is completely covered on all sides so it looks like the whole deck is mahagony. Notice the thin "edge" strip and the weird half round side piece that fits into the rabbit - once everything is sanded down, it will mimic the curve of the plywood.

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This shot shows the dash section "complete", i.e. there's all three layers of veneer. Note how you can't see any plywood edge or surface anywhere! The clamps are touching the bottom piece, the edge / middle layer is squished between the bottom and the top veneers.

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Last but not least, how the finished top veneering fits into the coamings. It's quite messy and is going to need a bit of work with the sander / a potential gap fill to look the way I want it, but the veneers are partially set into the coaming as well, which is why I needed the double rabbit at the end (see a few posts back). I suspect I've made everything about as clear as mud, but the end result is that you can't see there's any plywood!

Next up, the screw up / difficult areas:

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This picture shows one of many examples where we couldn't quite get things to line up, had a tiny gap, and had to fill it with a little scrap piece of veneer. The very nice thing about using (raptor) nails instead of vacuum sealing things, is that this fix took maybe 15 seconds to pull off - whereas I imagine everything would have to be *perfect* before you started using a vacuum system.

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This shot shows the veneering from the top, where the coamings start to poke out of the deck. It looks a bit weird right now with the "diagonal cut" through the veneer along the coaming line, but should clean up quite nice once everything's sanded / stained!

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Last but not least, my hidden racing stripes. Due to the way we ripped the veneers, they're all the tiniest bit skinnier at the "back" than the front. This works out well at the stern of the boat, which tapers in slightly anyways, but not so much on the front deck, which is pretty flat and square. Since the ash highlights run exactly straight, and the veneers were sized to exactly fill them, the "rear" edge had a noticeable gap of ~3/4". Instead of fitting a single peice, which would have taken forever, I was lucky enough that the scraps from ripping them were - of course - inversely angled in the opposite way, and ended up with three "racing stripes" down the very middle of the front deck. I highly doubt anyone will ever notice them once the dark stain and varnish are on, but just in case, I tried to make them look as nice / "intentional" as possible.

And now, the moment of truth...the fully veneered deck!

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Side shot - the very last piece hugging the sheer line took longer than the rest of the side put together, as it had to be fit along it's entire length.

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Shot of the rear, showing the gradual taper in the sheer.

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From behind - only one racing stripe at the back :wink:

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This might be one of my favorite pictures so far. A) I *love* the way the ash accents turned out, running the entire sheer and along the stringers for the length of the boat (they also exactly match up with the accents on the side) :D B) At this angle, the cockpit and front deck seem to poke out ever so slightly from the sides, but in a very fluid, beautiful way. :D C) It definitely doesn't look slow... :wink:

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And there you go, progress shot for this week! I'm hoping to get most of the sanding done next weekend, and maybe even some of the staining (we'll have to see how the sanding goes) - things will be going a little slower again now that I only get 2 days weekends for the foreseeable future!

Cheers,

Denon

Re: Rampage Update 2017

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:40 pm
by Nova SS
very nice indeed Denon. :D

Re: Rampage Update 2017

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:51 pm
by DSR
Looks great Denon!

I really like how the thin veneers and Ash accents make the deck, and the whole hull, look even longer than it already did.

Nicely done!! :D

Dave

Re: Rampage Update 2017

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:23 pm
by Bill Edmundson
Denon

Good work!

Bill

Re: Rampage Update 2017

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:50 am
by mrintense
My oh my that is beautiful! When the clear coat goes on, watch out! Great work.

Re: Rampage Update 2017

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:29 pm
by Denon Osterman
Hey all,

As always, thank you for the kind words! Not much of a huge change this week - just sanded all of the veneering - but it does add a much more polished look to the boat that I quite enjoy! I'll get the stain on next weekend, and then some clear coat after that...fingers crossed I can start varnishing before the temperature drops too much!

The two main things this week were the dash, and the sanding. Sanding the white ash strips actually took (significantly) longer than the rest of the entire deck combined...mahagony is much easier to flatten than ash is! In terms of sanding belts, I also *destroyed* two on the nails and ash, but barely made a dent in the third finishing the entire rest of the deck...crazy how different various woods can be.

First, the dash area. I've been going on and on about "hiding" the plywood deck all summer - and now that it's all finished, hopefully it finally makes sense!

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Here's the "final" shot on the edge of the decking overhanging the dash. It looks clearly like it's just three mahogany laminations - no plywood in sight :) . Thanks to my scroll saw / router bit, it's also got a beautiful taper to the top and bottom edges (I did the bottom just after this picture)

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Another huge plus to having the right tools is being able to get the deck *perfectly* straight - no measuring or fancy stuff required, just the belt sander and a light touch!

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Last but not least - and slight spoiler alert for the rest of the deck - the final result of where the deck meets the coaming. It's perfectly fitted and flush at all angles, with a seamless curve from the coaming to the dash. On my TNT, the decking just awkwardly ended up on top of the coaming - I didn't like the idea of rabbeting it in, and still don't! Seeing the coaming from the top seems...weird - and this solution seems to be a much nicer result at the end.

On to the decking - as I said, sanding the white ash took quite a beating on everything. It's a tough, dense wood! So, all of the below shots show a "before" - where I've just done the ash - and an "after", where I've one the mahogany as well. First though, the belt - most of the belts I use end up ripping at the seal and breaking, but this brand took some *serious* punishment.

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On the right, a brand new belt - on the left, one that's lost its edge, a serious chunk down the middle, half it's grit...and still kept sanding!

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A "before" and "after" of the sides...

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A "before" and "after" of the front deck...

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And a "before" and "after" of the whole hull!

I really like how it looks now that it's sanded...much, much cleaner than last week. The colour will change as I stain it, and then epoxy it, and then varnish it - but the "texture", if you will - the smoothness - is nearly there. And it looks amazing! I know, I know, I'm tooting my own horn - but I do love the way it looks.

Cheers for this week,

Denon

P.S. Dave - It's funny you say that it looks longer. I actually thought the boat started looking way, *way* smaller once the decking was on. I think - sadly - that the camera is adding a few feet to the length, based on the lensing and perspective. In these pictures it looks like the deck is ~1/2 the boat, but in "real life" it looks closer to a 1/3rd. I say "sadly" because I quite enjoy the long deck in the photos, even if it isn't totally real!

Re: Rampage Update 2017

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:49 am
by rleete
Really looking good now. Amazing what a bit of sanding will do.

Re: Rampage Update 2017

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:43 am
by slug
Coming along really nice now Denon.
Doug

Re: Rampage Update 2017

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:32 am
by DSR
Hi Denon,

Excellent job on the deck! Have you figured out a formula for the stain?

Yeah, I really like the look of the long decks, especially the boats with the cowl extended forward to get a raised center area, like the Biesemeyer circle boats (a nice example shown)

I actually moved the dash beam back 10" for a 6' 6" foredeck on the TNT so I could get a similar look, but doing so definitely cuts into the cockpit area pretty severely......

Thanks
Dave

Re: Rampage Update 2017

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:39 am
by JimmY
Looks nice all sanded.

You may be better with a belt sander than me, but I would be worried that you sanded dips and waves into the surface. These will really show up under a glossy surface. Have you gone over the deck with a long board to see how flat it is?

Re: Rampage Update 2017

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:59 pm
by Denon Osterman
It is definitely amazing what some sanding will do, and thanks for the kind words doug!

Dave, I'm using W.D. Lockwood stain - the water soluble, metal complex, "brown" - haven't gotten the ratio quite settled yet though, I need a better scale! That is a beautiful boat in your pic :D and likely a bit faster than mine too. I'm hoping when it's all said and done mine will be a nice compromise between long deck and cargo / passenger room, as I'd really like to have two rows of seating, even if the back one is "kids /groceries only", it makes the boat much more useable for me.

Jimmy, I've got a three part answer for you - 1) I find the only way to go with a belt sander is a LOT of movement, across the belt (perpindicular to it's rotation / movement). If I move "forward" and "backwards", I gouge almost immediately...but if I fly side to side, always moving, it works pretty well. 2) I chased the initial belt sanding with a long board sander - though not for very long as I couldn't see any major issues anywhere - and then finally with a R.O. sander just to get any of the scratch lines out, again moving very quickly with light pressure. 3) Well, now you've got me worried! I might chase again next weekend just to be safe, I have to wait at least a day to stain anyways as I still have to "protect" the white ash and the spruce coamings with epoxy so no stain gets on them. Thanks for the heads up - I'll triple check everywhere before I stain.

Thanks,

Denon