16' Ski Boat Restoration

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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Milhouse
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by Milhouse » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:19 pm

I just got off the phone with Dale at Interlux (713-684-1242) and he was very helpful. He said that all I should use for reducer is 5% and the reason it looks like crap is that I am putting way too much paint on and I am not tipping correctly (i.e. orange peel and brush marks). He said I need to do smaller sections (only about 12" at a time) and tip LIGHTLY at a 45 degree angle barely touching the surface (i.e. don't bend any bristles) and take my time. He said to only overlap by about half an inch.

Yes this is pretty much exactly what you said Billy and Skip :D

He said the Badger hair brush should work fine (I will give the foam brushes a shot on the next coat to compare and contrast) It would be nice not so use so much acetone to clean the $$$$ brush at the end of the job.

I am considering rolling with a smaller roller so I don't put so much paint on...I am currently using 7" roller
Jim
16' Ski Boat Restoration
17' Overnighter Sloop

I'd rather have a $h!tty meal than an $h!tty resume because a totally awesome resume will feed me steak one day - Steve Poltz

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Milhouse
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by Milhouse » Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:19 pm

I sanded down the brush marks and orange peel yesterday with 400 Grit and then washed it down good. Started today with a sunny outlook eager to see a good roll and tip job and now I'm at a loss if I will ever be able to get this paint job looking reasonable; it turned out like a little kid did did it.

I tried rolling and tipping perfection again and it looks terrible again...I thinned 5% (per Interlux's recommendation) and I had trouble maintaining a wet edge even though it was only 75 deg F. I was only doing about a 7" section before tipping (I tried using the foam brushes today and they seemed to work the same as the badger hair brush (i.e. I still had "brush marks").

I tried to only roll on a very thin layer of paint and I was barely touching the surface with the tipping brush. Still have brush marks, orange peel and now stop/start marks where the wet edge stopped.

One odd observation is that the transom (which I did first) looks reasonable except for some big stop/stop marks (no wet edge probably need 10% thinner). There are no brush marks in it or Orange peel. So I am wondering is this because the roller had less paint in it? I don't think I was loading up the roller but still there is too much paint getting on.

I see that Bob had similar issues: https://www.glen-l.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29238 I have not tried his idea of soaking the brush in reducer yet.
bobinpowayca wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:30 pm
My tipping brush was "damp" with reducer - I soaked them in the reducer before painting and then shook out all the solvent out if the brush that I could before tipping (this was important so the brush would "glide" easily). I only allowed the weight of the brush to drag over the paint - very lightly, no pressure.

I may be looking into PPG Automotive paints to spray because I am seeing no progress and just repeating sanding, painting, failure is starting to get to me.

[urlhttp://www.glen-l.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33354] Support Knowledge Base - Automotive Paints[/url]
Attachments
terrible.jpg
Jim
16' Ski Boat Restoration
17' Overnighter Sloop

I'd rather have a $h!tty meal than an $h!tty resume because a totally awesome resume will feed me steak one day - Steve Poltz

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billy c
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by billy c » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:47 pm

Milhouse wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:19 pm
I tried to only roll on a very thin layer of paint and I was barely touching the surface with the tipping brush. Still have brush marks, orange peel and now stop/start marks where the wet edge stopped.

One odd observation is that the transom (which I did first) looks reasonable except for some big stop/stop marks (no wet edge probably need 10% thinner). There are no brush marks in it or Orange peel. So I am wondering is this because the roller had less paint in it? I don't think I was loading up the roller but still there is too much paint getting on.
Jim-
Hard to watch you working your tail off to get these type of results. :(
You are right, if you are getting stop start marks you are not thinned enough. Possibly you are not thinned enough for the conditions you are working in. I try to work in lower temperatures ...60's and also low humidity 40% ...which we have very little of this spring without dehumidifying the area. At any rate, you do need to have some open time before the paint surface skims so you can work the material. Frustrating how such a small things make the difference between lap and brush marks in the final surface and a relatively smooth result. If you decide to try a last coat of this use a sample board to get your roller and brushwork flowing and make adjustments so you don't involve the hull!
I think there are a few good videos by Jamestown Distributors that show application of the product if you haven't seen them yet.
Billy
(insert Witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

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sscobra
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by sscobra » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:28 pm

Jim, so sorry this is giving you such a hard time. The only thing I can think of is that you are putting too much paint on the hull. You said you did a 7" wide area, but I think you also said that your roller is 7" wide. So are you just rolling one section the width of your roller? When I rolled mine, I would roll the roller into the paint and then roll it on the textured (if that if the right description) part of the pan to get the paint as evenly loaded in the roller as I could. Try to minimize what you load the roller with. What I had in the roller I then applied to an area of at least 2 feet wide (usually more like 3 feet wide) from the keel to the chine. In your case it would be sheer to chine. I rolled it in multiple directions, left and right, up and down, w pattern, etc., until I got is as evenly spread over the area as I could. If I felt I still had too much paint in that particular area, I would roll it out over a larger area. Then I would tip it very lightly. When you do the next section, try not to overlap the previous section very much if at all. You have to be quick. I would mix enough paint to do the whole bottom of the boat (it took a couple of tries to get close to the needed amount and I did end up wasting some paint!), because while you are mixing, the paint is drying and you won't be able to tip into the previous section. It has been a few years since I painted my boat bottom so my memory of it is a little lacking in the the thinning process. I am nearly positive that I only thinned the first coat and then decided it didn't need to be thinned on the other 3 coats I applied. My paint was already very thin. I had primed the bottom first with white interlux primer and it took me 4 coats of the green interlux paint to cover the primer, that is how thin the paint was. Maybe your paint is drying too fast because of the thinner. I will have to look back at my posts to see what time of the year I painted my boat. I did mine in a heated/air conditioned space, but I turned off the unit while I was painting and then back on only after the paint dried. My main problem was dust and I wanted to minimize it by turning off the unit. After all this has been said, your finish will not be perfect. I don't remember getting any orange peel, but I did get some brush marks, mostly in the areas where I had overlap. There is no such thing as a perfect paint job (even a sprayed one). There will always be some brush marks or possibly runs to deal with. If you want an absolutely perfect shiny finish, then you will have to polish it by (wet or dry) sanding it with no coarser than 800 grit to start and work your way up to 2500 to 3000 grit paper, followed by polishing compound with a buffer. Sorry to be so wordy and I wish you the best of luck whether you roll and tip or end up spraying. Skip
Built the Glen-L Monaco, 2016.

JimmY
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by JimmY » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:25 am

Hi Jim,

Sorry to hear you are have such troubles. You are not alone and I was in the same situation with my boat. believe me. Bottom line is that you are not going to get a mirror finish rolling and tipping. No amount of thinner, reducer, brush type, etc... will get the paint to flow out perfectly level. If you want it to look like a sprayed automotive finish, it is either going to take $$$ to have a pro spray it in a booth, or it is going to take some work. Sorry to be blunt, but these are the facts.

At this point, you just want to get enough paint on the hull so that you can level it out by sanding. I rolled and tipped 7 or 8 coats of WR-LPU on my boat before starting to sand. The smoother you can get it now, and how hard you want to work, will determine what grit of paper you can start with (600 to 800). 600 will cut it down pretty quick (read risk cutting through to primer), but will require a few more steps in bringing out the shine. 800 will take more time to cut down the orange peel, but will be easier to polish up. Once you can level out the paint (get rid of the orange peel look), it is just a matter of working up through various grits of sandpaper and polishing compounds to bring out the shine. I used the 3M perfection system of compounds (not cheap) with good results, but you need to sand to 2000/2500 or higher before starting to polish.

The other thing to consider is, 99% of people will only be looking at the deck and cockpit. The hull is in the water and no one really notices it. I've got some issues on my boat under the rub rail, and unless you're in the water looking up under it no one knows they are there. Summer is coming, and if you want to get the boat in the water, get some paint on it and go enjoy it. You can always wait to sand and polish it in the fall.

My $0.02
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

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Milhouse
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by Milhouse » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:11 pm

Thank you so much everyone for your support especially Billy, Skip, Jim, Ken, Paul and Locutus for the detailed responses to my questions/problems. When you took the time to comment in my time(s) of frustration it really shows that you and the Glen-L Community truly care and are here to help out fellow builders!

I do believe that the rolling and tipping IS possible with Interlux Perfection but I think that the heat (>60 Deg F), Applying the material way to thick (potentially do to too large of roller), my inexperience* and extra features of the hull have led me to the path that I am choosing to try spraying automotive paint and will be giving up on Perfection Paint for this boat.

I have bought 2 quarts of PPG Essential it is a three part Urethane (6:1:1). Since both the perfection and this are catalyzed Urethane the PPG rep said it can be sprayed right over the sanded Perfection, no need for more primer. It ran about $170 for the Catalyst, Reducer and Base. I got it in a very similar Blue to the perfection. There was a slightly different blue (barely noticeable IMO) and it was $20 more per quart so I went with the less expensive one. They said that there was probably some amount of expensive red tint in that one, interesting...

I also picked up a new Iwata Spray Gun to replace my Harbor Freight Model. Its the same in the link but I got the 1.3mm Air cap (to reduce the material that I am spraying).

The best gun out there is apparently this DeVilbiss Tekna Pro-Lite but the sales rep said I should be fine with the lower end model.

I also got some new Respirator cartridges and have ordered a tyvek suit to be safe.

I may try and make a better water separator for my compressor before this weekends spraying festivities as well.

Thank you all again for your help and support!

*I certainty was increasing my roll and tip and sanding experience with the multiple re-tries :).
Jim
16' Ski Boat Restoration
17' Overnighter Sloop

I'd rather have a $h!tty meal than an $h!tty resume because a totally awesome resume will feed me steak one day - Steve Poltz

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mrintense
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by mrintense » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:43 am

I am late to this conversation, but I experienced the same challenges as you did when painting the bottom of my build. No amount of thinning or technique resulted in the super fine finish I wanted. Only multiple applications and some sanding gt it to an acceptable point. That being said, the real culprit for me was the heat. This really is the biggest challenge I think to building a painted boat versus a natural wood finish. Good luck with the next attempt Jim. I know that you'll persevere and eventually get to something you'll like.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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Milhouse
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by Milhouse » Sat May 04, 2019 4:19 pm

I sprayed some test panels and they turned out well so I decided to spray the boat today. It looks reasonable. Its not the A+ work I was hoping for but its a solid B. Hopefully I can turn it into a A- by cutting and buffing it.The best part is that there are no brush marks or start stop marks. All the spots are fully covered and it does not look like a little kid painted it :)

I sprayed at about 1:30pm when the temp was about 73F humidity ~45%. Since it was a bit warmer than the Standard activator (510) recommended, > 68F, I picked up some slow activator (520). I used ~two quarts of paint (50 oz of color) for two coats on the sides and one coat on the bottom (the bottom already had quite a few coats of Interlux perfection on it).

There is still a bit of orange peel but its a bit better than I had before. There are a few areas where I many not have layed down enough material because its a but dull (overspray ish) or maybe its just overspray...

Today since the wind was supposed to pick up around 2pm (10mph) I put up a tarp and it worked nicely to keep the wind and dust off the side of the boat while spraying and when the paint was drying. A nice feature of this Automotive (PPG Delfleet Essential) paint is that it was really nice that only about 2 hours later the paint is dry to the touch. (Paul and Ken mentioned this and its great).

The bottom of the boat was really hard to spray with the gravity HVLP Spray gun because of the angle needed to get the spray gun under the boat.

I'm sure some practice and with better spraying technique I can improve the results of my next paint job.

Thank you to everyone that provided painting advice!
Attachments
sprayed.jpg
Orange Peel from today's PPG Essential spray session
orange peel.jpg
Orange Peel from when I sprayed Interlux Perfection
tarp.jpg
Boat sprayed with PPG Essential today, showing the tarp I put up to keep the dust and wind off.
Jim
16' Ski Boat Restoration
17' Overnighter Sloop

I'd rather have a $h!tty meal than an $h!tty resume because a totally awesome resume will feed me steak one day - Steve Poltz

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mrintense
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by mrintense » Sun May 05, 2019 9:46 am

Painting is one of those things I dread the most about the build. All the careful assembly work and if you screw up the paint work, it's a lot of work to correct it. I've wanted to do all of this build myself but this is one area a I am considering getting a professional . Good luck with the painting Jim. The Essentials does look better than the perfection.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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kens
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by kens » Sun May 05, 2019 1:17 pm

I see the spraying worked a little better for you. Yes, with practice you can get spraying to look quite good.
You seem to have a good gloss there, plenty of wet-out.
A great deal of orange peel will go away with time, as the paint cures, it shrinks, and some orange peel will shrink away.
When I was painting cars in a former life, when I had a orange peel paint job, I would push it out into the hot sun and let it bake........
The body man in our shop painted his truck, orange peeled the hell out of it.......30 days later it looked fine.
Oak is over rated, everything about it takes extra time; then it warps, splits or checks !!! :roll:

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billy c
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by billy c » Sun May 05, 2019 5:17 pm

Jim glad you got some paint to lay down for you. Perfection was just not going to cooperate for you. That surface will tighten up and level for you if you let it harden and resist the urge to immediately buff it out.
Billy
(insert Witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

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hoodman
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by hoodman » Sun May 05, 2019 7:15 pm

You made your job harder with the dark color. I think it's looking pretty darn good.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

283
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by 283 » Mon May 06, 2019 4:40 am

Looks good from here :D

With the 3m pps disposable cup/liner system you can use a gravity gun more like a suction gun. Even upside down for a bit... If you hold the gun upside down and and pull the trigger you can collapse the liner and put it under a slight vacuum.
Mike

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Milhouse
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by Milhouse » Sat May 11, 2019 11:40 am

Thanks all!

I buffed out a test piece last week and it looked pretty good. So I cut and buffed out the transom (it had a few drips) and its super flat, no peel and it looks reasonable (still a bit hazy) but not as glassy as it was right off the gun. I Clearly didn't all of the 600/800 grit scratches out. Its good enough for now though. I don't want to burn through the paint.

The peel seems about the same after a week on the rest of the boat that I didn't buff. I wonder if that is because this is two part catalyzed paint?

I will probably cut and buff the entire boat one day (mainly to fix the the over spray spots) but its not in the critical path to get her into the water.

After taking the masking off the color really pops. I am excited!

There will be metal trim which hides the transition between paint and wood.
Attachments
side.jpg
no buff.jpg
Fresh off the gun - Reflection from boat to my shed
no buff.jpg (1.49 KiB) Viewed 1251 times
buffed.jpg
After Buffing - Reflection from boat to my shed
buffed.jpg (1.17 KiB) Viewed 1251 times
Jim
16' Ski Boat Restoration
17' Overnighter Sloop

I'd rather have a $h!tty meal than an $h!tty resume because a totally awesome resume will feed me steak one day - Steve Poltz

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Milhouse
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by Milhouse » Sat May 11, 2019 12:48 pm

Here is the list I published on Oct 14, 2018. Items in green have been completed since then.

Now I JUST need to:
1. Re-align the coupler to the shaft, oh Joy!
2. Wire it up properly and neatly
3. Fully Install the dash
4. Install the steering cable
5. Design and Fabricate Transmission Shifter linkage
6. Fabricate Throttle Linkage out of metal (currently temporary wooden piece)
7. Complete the mid-deck
8. Varnish the deck
9. Caulk the deck
10. Paint the Hull
11. Install hatches
12. Research/Buy/Install some sort of non-skid removable flooring
13. Fabricate/install Battery Box
14. Build a Engine cover (research sound deadening materials)
15. Build/Install the Front Seat
16. Build/Install the Rear Seat
17. Install the Gas tanks
18. Mount the Fuel Pump
19. Plumb the fuel system
20. Rebuild Trailer
a. Sandblast
b. Replace rusty bits
c. Paint
d. Axles

e. Brakes
f. Wheels/tires
g. Tongue
/ Actuator
h. Bunks
i. Lights
j. Winch
21. Put the boat on the trailer
22. Install Accessories (Nav Lights, Horn, Anchor Light, Bilge Pump, Cleats, ski tow hooks, courtesy lights)
23. Install Rub Rail
24. Oil Change
25. Launch
26. Celebrate/Drink Beers
27. Design, fabricate/buy/Install Windshield
28. Make/install a new/beefier Alternator Mount
29. Research/buy/install Boat Cover
Jim
16' Ski Boat Restoration
17' Overnighter Sloop

I'd rather have a $h!tty meal than an $h!tty resume because a totally awesome resume will feed me steak one day - Steve Poltz

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