Squirt build, Snowy Mountains, Australia

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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Shaunh
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Squirt build, Snowy Mountains, Australia

Post by Shaunh » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:58 am

Hi all.

I have just picked up today a set of plans for a Squirt. The plan is to have a crack at this one and once completed I will launch into a Riviera. Figured the Squirt would be a great project to cut my teeth on and I have a 7.5hp Evinrude ready to bolt on. Anyway, reading through the plans and following on from a client who was chasing materials from me last year to build a Glen L I have a question regarding timber sizes. ( sorry, Aussie terminology in use here! ) On the web site and in the instructions there is talk of the thicknesses described in the cutting lists as finished sizes but then goes on to say 1" usually finishes 3/4 inches. I agree 1" finishes 3/4 but I am confused as to why the thicknesses are listed as standard sawn sizes yet the widths seem to be dressed sizes. Then, to confuse the issue further, the Sheers are listed as 2 x 3/8 to be laminated to make 1-1/4 inch finished size. So the cutting list has the Sheers at actual size for the thickness but the other components at the sawn ( in Aus we call it nominal as well) size. Why mix dressed and sawn sizes in the same table? Have I read this incorrectly? As a cabinetmaker I would always list finished width and thickness for all components unless I was say cutting curves and overall width was a minimum required to do the job. Then i might make a notation to that effect on the cutting list. Any clarification here would be appreciated. Also, have there been any thoughts on digitising the plans? Would be awesome to drop all the components onto a CNC router and shape them. Would save a huge amount of work and all that lofting. Having said that, I am looking forward to the lofting and template construction. Cheers for now, Shaun. :D

283
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Re: Squirt build, Snowy Mountains, Australia

Post by 283 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:01 am

Shaunh wrote: As a cabinetmaker I would always list finished width and thickness for all components unless I was say cutting curves and overall width was a minimum required to do the job
I think you answered your own question. :lol:

At least on the one set of plans I have the widths were listed to maximize the number of parts you can nest on one board.
Mike

JimmY
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Re: Squirt build, Snowy Mountains, Australia

Post by JimmY » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:43 am

Hi Shaun,

I struggled a bit with the thicknesses of the different timbers. I ended up assuming that all thicknesses were rough dimensions, and the final piece will be ~1/4" thinner. There were a few exceptions, like you noticed for the sheers and chines. My frames are all 3/4" thick.

The best advise I can give is to cut the notches in the frames to match the final milled lumber. On the Squirt the battens are 1" rough and I milled them to 3/4", but the plans have the notches at ~7/8" deep. So, I made sure to adjust the notch depth accordingly. Also, the printed plans can "stretch" when they are copied. So, double check the location (left / right) of each notch. You might find one side of the frame differs from the other, or a part that is drawn vertically on the plans differs from one drawn horizontally. Just make sure that your frames are symmetrical.

Good luck, and post photos.
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

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hoodman
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Re: Squirt build, Snowy Mountains, Australia

Post by hoodman » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:03 pm

I agree it can be a little confusing. On the instructions for my boat, it says something like all the thicknesses are listed as nominal unless noted as "net." I think the reason that they are mixed together is that for the most part the actual thickness really doesn't matter except for like how you pointed out that the sheers are two laminations of 5/8 to get to a total of 1.25. The designer decided that the sheers needed to be a certain size for whatever reason and they can't take that bend easily at that size so they are laminated. The widths are critical so that's why they are listed as the final "net" size.

You shouldn't be doing any lofting with these plans. They come with full-size patterns for the frames. Most of us don't make templates for the frames. It's an unnecessary step although some have chosen to do so. The full-size patterns can be transferred directly to the final pieces to be cut. I'm all for digitizing things but this almost seems unnecessary to me as well. By the time you did so you would be done cutting out from the patterns. I'm assuming you have access to a bandsaw if you have access to a CNC. The CNC I'm sure will make more accurate cuts that you won't have to clean up later but you will be fairing especially the forward frame anyways. I think there are two frames in the squirt? You could have all the pieces cut out in less than a day I would think. How long would it take you to input all the pieces into the computer?
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

Shaunh
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Re: Squirt build, Snowy Mountains, Australia

Post by Shaunh » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:47 pm

Thanks for the quick replies. You have confirmed what I thought to be the case. re the stretching of the plans as they are copied, thanks for that reminder. Essentially i will make any minor adjustments to ensure battens etc match cut outs on frames and all should be good. Doesn't change the fact mixing finished and sawn sizes on the one list is potentially quite confusing, and not just for me it seems!
Hoodman, re the templates, don't ever underestimate the value of a good template. We make them all the time in our shop and they offer a range of benefits. firstly , I generally use 3 or 6mm MDF. Easy to shape, fast to shape and most importantly as the material is thin it is much easier to maintain accuracy than shaping 3/4 solid timber. I then use the template with a 1:1 cutter to shape the components such as the frames. Also, if i stuff something up i have a template to go back to to reproduce the component. When making left and right components in theory they should be pretty much identical, just flip them over. Reading back through the forums I see some use templates and some don't. May come down to what you are comfortable with but for speed and accuracy a template will almost always trump doing it free hand.
On the topic of digital plans, i was really referring to having proper drawing files that could be easily converted by a CNC router or even laser cutter. I agree that simply having say a scanned in version as a PDF would not help, probably be a backward step actually. On another note, my study plans for a Barrel back arrived this morning. I am no longer thinking that vessel but nice to have the plans. More stuff to look at!
Cheers Shaun

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Jimbob
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Re: Squirt build, Snowy Mountains, Australia

Post by Jimbob » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:53 pm

Re Templates:
I use them all the time. 1/2" MDF is my choice also, plenty of room for the flush trim bearing to ride on. A pattern maker's file is great for shaping the MDF. Also a spindle sander and disc sander work great for shaping. On my frames, I used one pattern for both sides, resulting in a completely symmetrical final assembly. Save your patterns, they come in handy later for deck beams, and all sorts of other things where you need to copy a shape of an adjoining frame or deck beam.
Jim
Jim Neeley
Building a Barrelback in Sacramento, CA
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=28089#p172969

Shaunh
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Re: Squirt build, Snowy Mountains, Australia

Post by Shaunh » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:48 pm

100% Jim. You mentioned a couple more benefits on templates. Re your Barrelback, it looks awesome. Have just checked out your pages. Jenko and I had a play with some curves on the back of his Riviera to see how she'd look with a Barrelback. You may see a hybrid when I start my Riviera build. It was the shape of the rear that attracted me to these boats in the first place.

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hoodman
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Re: Squirt build, Snowy Mountains, Australia

Post by hoodman » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:11 pm

I didn't mean to imply that templates aren't useful. Just that you don't have to make them in order to produce your frames.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

Shaunh
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Re: Squirt build, Snowy Mountains, Australia

Post by Shaunh » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:42 pm

Agreed Matt. You could build a whole boat, no jigs, templates etc. No plans if you are really good, just a sketch. I run a workshop where we need to produce consistent results regardless of the maker so with most of our products and processes we have systems, jigs etc. It helps heaps with efficiency and means each time we make something it is pretty much the same as the last time we did it. It's just the way we work and it works for us. The great thing about woodwork is everyone goes about things differently and after 32 years in the industry I still learn something new each week. haven't built a boat before so that will be a big learning curve for sure. Looking forward to it. Really appreciate the feedback, giving me plenty to think about. happy wood working ( or fibre glassing if that's where you're up to. )

Ozzieboat
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Re: Squirt build, Snowy Mountains, Australia

Post by Ozzieboat » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:36 am

Shaunh
As 283 said you have answered your own question. I am only familiar with GL plans for the Monaco and Riviera, but I am sure the same applies all plans. If you are in doubt on the size of any timber (lumber) measure the size off the full size patterns or if they are to scale, measure and multiply by 12. The plans are very accurate. For the Monaco all timber sizes other than the keel and sheer were off the rack standard sizes available in OZ.

Shaunh
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Re: Squirt build, Snowy Mountains, Australia

Post by Shaunh » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:09 pm

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Hi all. Have been a bit busy with work but mean while have spent a ridiculous amount of time looking at motor options for my Squirt. Well, its done. Forked out a hand full of cash a couple of hours ago and behold, the donor vessle. We are going jet power after watching some insane kiwis in their little alloy boats going crazy in two inches of water. The squirt will not be punished like that but a few vidoes of other jet squirts show they are still a lot of fun.
I have a question though. I saw a post somewhere shoing the guy cut the fibreglass section out of the jet ski and grafted into the hull of his squirt. If you look at the rear image you see it sits a little lower in the centre. Is this just the hull design for the jet ski or is it necessary to have the jet inlet lower? Squirt has a pretty flat bottom and other posts talk of porpoising attributed to as little as a couple of mm out of flat on the bottom. I also read a radius at the junction of transom to bottom can cause issues. Keen to hear thoughts on how i graft the jet into the hull. Cheers shaun

Shaunh
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Re: Squirt build, Snowy Mountains, Australia

Post by Shaunh » Sun May 06, 2018 1:43 am

Have been a bit busy with life but managed an afternoon with a couple of angle grinders today. End result is the donor jet ski is in bits and i have an engine and a bunch of other components ready for grafting into my Squirt. Time to start some woodwork.

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mattmays
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Re: Squirt build, Snowy Mountains, Australia

Post by mattmays » Wed May 16, 2018 8:36 pm

Looks Great. I will be following this thread very closely. I look forward to all that is learned about attaching this thing to the bottom with plenty of pictures hopefully.

Shaunh
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Re: Squirt build, Snowy Mountains, Australia

Post by Shaunh » Sun May 27, 2018 9:24 pm

Hi all.
The boat building has hit a road block, it's called work! We have been working American Oak though. These images show 33 step treads and winders we are making for 3 units. I also have some photos of Aussie Blackbutt treads. That job is nearly 1000 units and they are all pre finished before they leave our shop. We have had orders for 1400 treads since March so lots happening. On the boat front i have a pile of veneers for decking and hull awaiting my attention. Also have spent time pondering the issue of shoe horning a jet unit into a Squirt. I wanted to keep it withing the hull but i think the jet will hang out the back and i suspect i will have to shorten the drive shaft too. Stay tuned.
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Shaunh
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Re: Squirt build, Snowy Mountains, Australia

Post by Shaunh » Sun May 27, 2018 9:25 pm

Blackbutt images
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