Wood Boat Porn (work appropriate)

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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nybhh
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Wood Boat Porn (work appropriate)

Postby nybhh » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:12 am

Alright Glen-L, I'd like to build this...
DonDonCover.jpg


or this ...
AlphaAction1-925x500.jpg


or this...
tt-faith.jpg


Now get on it! :wink:

Seriously, I'm awe struck. I came across these while googling around looking at different designs. #3 is used and offered for sale for $650,000.00! The links are here...
https://www.vandamboats.com/boat-search/

To keep this relative to our gracious host, I think a cross between the Bolero and maybe a Tahoe might lend itself to something similar to #1 & 3 but I can't seem to find many build photos of the Bolero and study plans don't seem to be available for that one either. #2 is just other-worldly!
-Brandon

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gap998
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Re: Wood Boat Porn (work appropriate)

Postby gap998 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:24 pm

You could achieve the look of all these boats by using the Bolero or Bandido hull designs & making changes above the waterline and aft of the transom. Both these designs are pretty flexible on power & drive line.

Get the plans and make some rough scale models from card/balsa etc., (or on CAD if you have access/ability). I wouldn't attempt to combine two hull designs as performance and stability will be unpredictable.

Do your research, look at LOTS of pictures of the Glen-L designs, the Van Dam designs & others so you can better understand how they go together. It's not rocket-science but it does take some thought.

I'm a design engineer, so I guess it's easy for me to say, but if you're contemplating building a boat, I'm sure you have the ability to work it out!

Good luck! It'd be great to see a modern twist done with Glen-L designs.
Gary

Planning a whole fleet, but starting with a Zip...I think.

"Just when you think you've made something idiot-proof, someone builds a better idiot!"

nybhh
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Re: Wood Boat Porn (work appropriate)

Postby nybhh » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:28 pm

Thanks Gary. I've since discovered that those Van Dam photos are nothing new around here :oops:
Anyway, I'm a non-naval architect so I have quite a bit of design and CAD background but floating in water is all new to me.

The more I've dug into this, I am realizing my biggest aesthetic hangup with a lot of these classic designs is how the inboard engines shift the cockpit so far forward and you loose much of that long sexy foredeck. Most of these Van Dam designs seem to be using stern drive engines which gets rid of the useless rear cockpit, shifts the main cockpit back giving you room for 4-5 passengers while keeping a foredeck that is probably 40-50% of the overall length. I think it is the proportion of foredeck to overall length that is key.

The Gentry isn't well documented and too small for my purposes but the lines of that boat are gorgeous because of these foredeck to length proportions (IMHO). I feel like I can design from the waterline up if I can find a design that puts the engine in the right place and has hull characteristics I'm looking for. If there was Tahoe-like hull designed around a stern-drive engine, I think it would be perfect for my needs/desires.

Edit: The Bandido is beautiful actually, I hadn't really paid too much attention to that as it is too long for my shop but the build photos are really nice. There are study plans available for that as well while there is not for the Bolero. I wish there were better build photos of the Bolero, it is really tough to imagine what that boat can be without study plans or more photos!
-Brandon

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Re: Wood Boat Porn (work appropriate)

Postby TomB » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:48 pm

nybhh,

VanDam’s boat building skills are gorgeous. It always nice to see their work. I chose the Tahoe 23 and included VanDam’s Susan C to illustrate what I’m after.

Many of the inboard designs have a deep forefoot and a narrow stern creating a center of buoyancy under the inboard. As you look through the thumbnails of the 300 or so designs, watch for a stern drive/IO. They will have a fuller stern to support the engine all the way aft. Then your esthetics can take over once the hull design is set. Have you seen BayouBengal’s build thread “What the Heck, I’m Coming out of the Closet, too”? His build is similar to tt Faith, the third of your boat eye candy.

I’m looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

Tom

nybhh
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Re: Wood Boat Porn (work appropriate)

Postby nybhh » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:03 am

Tom,
I had not seen that thread but thank you for pointing it out. He did an amazing job with that and that is pretty close to what I'm looking for and his modifications were terrific. My home waters are the Hudson River, NYC Harbor and Long Island Sound so a hull like that would perform well and is a great size, lengthwise.

My inexperienced eye says the Bolero is probably the closes thing on Glen-L's site but that boat rings in at 24-5" so I would have to shrink it a bit to keep the build indoors. I know most of these designs can be lengthened by 10% but what about shortening them? Can the be scaled down by 10% in all dimensions to keep the same proportions?

I'm also beginning to realize that I gravitate more towards a convex sheer line like the Tahoe and Bolero vs a concave sheer line on something like the Mai Tai or Olympian. All subtle differences but they add up. I'm tempted to purchase a few sets of plans just for their offset tables so I could loft them up in the computer to study them easier but it seems like a real waste to drop that kind of cash just to choose a design although deciding which boat to spend the next 5 years on is a big commitment. Anyone know if offsets for these designs are published anywhere?

Edit: The hull design BayouBengal used is on sale as well as a similar one that is nice too so I just bought both of them to get something in the computer to start to play around with.
-Brandon

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Re: Wood Boat Porn (work appropriate)

Postby TomB » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:40 am

I like the deep vee's for the water you mention. A flat bottom aft would really give you a pounding while running in a chop.

From the Bolero description "Can the hull be extended or shortened? Yes. Up to 10% by re-spacing the frames from the aft end of the stem to the transom a proportional amount. We do not recommend increasing the beam." I read shorten by 10% is ok but a call to GlenL would confirm.

The Glen L plans include full size template drawings, no offset tables, so for CAD input you would be digitizing.

Tom

nybhh
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Re: Wood Boat Porn (work appropriate)

Postby nybhh » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:00 am

The Glen L plans include full size template drawings, no offset tables, so for CAD input you would be digitizing


Thank you for mentioning that, does complicate things a bit.
-Brandon

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DrBryanJ
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Re: Wood Boat Porn (work appropriate)

Postby DrBryanJ » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:07 am

Did you look at the Wanderlust? It can be stern drive, so engine is moved aft. All you need is the hull. The rest can be modified to suit you desires.
Bryan

Building a malahini "Mona Lisa"

My wife said "If I build a boat, she's getting a divorce."

nybhh
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Re: Wood Boat Porn (work appropriate)

Postby nybhh » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:37 am

Thank you Bryan,
I have. I'm pulling together a spreadsheet of all the various specifications from several of Glen L's Deep-V hulls as well as a couple of those from Clark Craft. I'm going to wait to make a final decision until we finalize the the plans for a new building on our upstate property since it will be heated and that's where I plan to build. Want to make sure it fits but I'll probably solicit a few opinions here once I get everything compiled and organized.
-Brandon

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billy c
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Re: Wood Boat Porn (work appropriate)

Postby billy c » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:08 am

30x40 is a good workshop building. :D
(insert Witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

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BayouBengal
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Re: Wood Boat Porn (work appropriate)

Postby BayouBengal » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:01 am

If you're good with using CAD, I don't think any of these boats are out of reach. I think all could be emulated with modified Glen-L plans.

While my boatbuilding skills and design will never approach VanDam, my boat does have some similarities to the third boat, and I'll happily sell it to you for a quarter of their price.

vlcsnap-2018-09-17-12h00m07s726.png

nybhh
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Re: Wood Boat Porn (work appropriate)

Postby nybhh » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:30 am

@ BayouBengal, Your boat was mentioned earlier in this thread and I've read through your build a couple of times now. I'm inspired by what you did and looking to so something very similar as far as the general layout is concerned. Beautiful boat and I may hit you up with a couple of specific questions at some point. I'm actually looking at the same hull you built on as well, just trying to nail down length and Deep-V vs Semi-V.

Edit: I found reference to another thread where you mention that certain aspects of that hull might would be problematic to the first time builder. Going to keep looking...

@ Billy C - A 30x40 shop would be amazing. We're replacing an old run down building that is 20' x 35' and even though the foundation is going to be completely redone, keeping the same footprint is preferable from a permitting and tax perspective. I'd be thrilled with the full 20'x35' but my wife wants the part of that building that lies adjacent to our patio as a screened in/sun room area so we're working through/negotiating exactly where the "dividing line" is going to be. We have a 20x40 barn as well with no electrical and poor lighting but I could make that work as well with a generator but it isn't insulated so wouldn't really be usable during the winter.
-Brandon

nybhh
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Re: Wood Boat Porn (work appropriate)

Postby nybhh » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:24 pm

I've entered most of the Glen L, Stern Drive, Deep V hulls into a Google Doc spreadsheet for easier comparison. It can be viewed here if anyone might find this information helpful or interesting...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I ordered the Bolero plans yesterday but I'm still concerned it is a bit more boat than I "need" or prudent to tackle for a first build. My "mission" is evolving but can now be defined as:

1. Hull design appropriate for mid-Hudson River down to NYC Harbor, East River up to City Island and possibly protected parts of Long Island Sound on nice days.
2. Seating for a minimum of 4
3. Sexy enough aesthetically to keep me motivated for the 3-5 years necessary to complete the project. This is of course subjective but I think all the mahogany classics are beautiful, as are the VanDam boats and I really like the classic Donzi's as well. A long sleek foredeck is important and that is suggesting a stern drive to maintain the seating requirement.
4. The boat under 20' will fit in a new conditioned shop (as designed) which will allow winter fabrication. This will greatly expedite the build as this is when I am the most cooped up under 12-18" snow without a lot of outdoor distractions. Out to 24' may be possible with some shop modifications which is scheduled to start next spring. Larger than this will have to get built in unconditioned barn.

Of the Glen L boats, I find the Gentry the sexiest but it obviously fails at #1 & 2 above.

The Renegade,Rampage & Kingpin all have similar lines and evoke classic Donzi and my eye likes them. Softening some of the hard chisels above the waterline, adding more camber to the foredeck and transom modifications would make them more modern and meet mission items #2,3,4. Even though these are Deep Vs, I'm concerned about item #1 due to shallow freeboardand & hull depth. I think they would be wet rides but I'd love to get some opinions on these.

The Desperado feels like a mini Bolero in profile to me and although freeboard is not listed, a hull depth at 30" is going to start getting a little dryer. This may be an option although something about the plan view of this boat troubles me. It would require a lot of work at the transom to work for #3.

Roustabout and Bravado have very similar characteristics stats and I suspect both are built on the same hull although the Bravado hull depth comes in at 45" vs 40" for the Roustabout. Both of these boats are candidates and with right design moves, detailing and liberal use of mahogony, could meet all the mission items above. There are some beautiful Roustabout builds for inspiration and the design seems very flexible. The foredeck could be extended rearward creating a smaller, more automotive styled cockpit similar to VanDam boats. Possibly a sundeck over the stern drive engine with storage on either side of the engine? Many of the same comments from above with regard to camber and softer/eased edges would apply hear as well.

The Wanderlust was left off the list due to a lack of specificity regrading the hull profile but it is similar to the Sirocco and VeeGull. These boats appear to be extremely appropriate for items #1 above but I worry about achieving #3 with the proportions of the hull. They may just have a bit too much hull depth and freeboard to achieve a sexy profile for their length.

The jury is still out but the short list for some CAD/3D design studies along with the Bolero which I already own is probably the Roustabout and the Desperado. They will both be much easier builds than the Bolero and the extended versions of both will fit in the conditioned shop so the build will move quicker and be more fun and rewarding. As always, I welcome opinions and suggestions if anyone has gotten this far :lol:

Thanks,
B
-Brandon

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BayouBengal
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Re: Wood Boat Porn (work appropriate)

Postby BayouBengal » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:44 pm

No real opinions or suggestions as it sounds like you're quite a bit ahead of most in understanding these designs and weighing the pros and cons of each. I'm definitely interested in seeing what you come up with. Here's a link to a build book I put together to display at ACBS events that covers some of my design considerations and it may interest you. If at some point you do decide to go with the Clarkcraft plans, there's an additional couple other design considerations that I'd incorporate and will share with you - https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ii84mgl472kh8y/Building%20the%20Pretty%20Girl%20Too.docx?dl=0

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Rich Coey
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Re: Wood Boat Porn (work appropriate)

Postby Rich Coey » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:31 pm

A member of our ACBS chapter has three Van Dam boats in his collection at his winery in Clearlake. The Saturday dinner for the Wood and Glory show is usually held there.
Check out the collection at https://www.boatiquewines.com/about/boats/

Rich


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