plywood

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little minnow
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plywood

Post by little minnow » Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:22 pm

building 18' drift boat. Went to lumber yard that specialized in hard wood and was told that they could take care of most of my needs but could not get 3/8th inch plywood anymore (does not come in 3/8th anymore), what can I use in place of that?
Also, I found out that white oak does not accept apoxy very well, causes bubbling. can I use white pine in place of oak?

Richard Mindykowski

Amm
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Post by Amm » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:14 pm

That would be very odd that they don't make it anymore. It must be that their supplier does not make it anymore? Sounds fishy.

About 6 months ago, I went to my local home depot and they ordered marine grade plywood for me. 3/8 was an option.

Have you priced out getting it online?
http://marine-plywood.us/douglas%20fir.htm

Ask them if they can get 9mm?
http://marine-plywood.us/mahogany_meranti.htm

marksa1458
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Post by marksa1458 » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:54 am

I used white oak in my boat and had no problems with Epoxy adhesion....
Both the below websites detail my build progress.

http://dynojet.fateback.com/Index.htm
or
http://www.geocities.com/marksa1458/

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razopp
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Post by razopp » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:02 am

Richard,

I know of a plywood dealer about 3 hours away from you in Vero Beach that I would highly recommend. Below if there contact information. You could always arrange for shipping if you needed. I know many who have ordered from them for shipping all the way to Texas and they were pleased. Edensaw Lumber also ships Marine Grade Plywood (that is where I got mine from), but I am sure it would be cheaper to ship from 3 hours away. Good luck and keep us posted.
Robert

E-Boat Inc.
dba Boat Builder Central
1360 SW Old Dixie, #103
Vero Beach, Florida 32962 USA
phone: 772-770-1225

little minnow
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Post by little minnow » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:48 pm

thanks for all of your suggestions, I was helped a lot. First I will go to Home Depot to see if they will special order for me, if not then I will try the websites and Vero Beach locations to get the wood.

upspirate

Post by upspirate » Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:36 am

Richard,
Try Ray's cabinet shop on Massachusetts ave in new port richey.I've heard they will order marine ply for you.Also there is some plywood place in Tampa that has it too(my favorites got wiped out for some reason,so I can't give you a web site )

Michael Bonaiuto
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Post by Michael Bonaiuto » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:07 am

One caution I might add. I would suggest to look for five ply
at a minium on fir grade marine plywood. Lately some 3/8 is coming through as four ply. I'm not sure if this is a big problem but
something to think about.

Michael

little minnow
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Post by little minnow » Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:42 am

thanks for the additional suggestions, I will let you know where I end up getting the plywood and maybe this will help others in the future
thanks again,
Little Minnow

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billy c
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Post by billy c » Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:42 am

Lately some 3/8 is coming through as four ply
never heard of that!
i thought plywood was made of an odd number of plies so that the 2 outside faces run the same direction and dont twist or warp.
learn something new here everyday!
-Billy
(insert Witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

Michael Bonaiuto
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Post by Michael Bonaiuto » Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:52 pm

I agree that 5 is better than four.

When I started my Console Skiff I used five ply 3/8 inch Marine Fir
plywood. When I went back to the same supplier for stock to
do my gunwhales he only had four ply Marine Fir plywood. For the gunwhales I went up to 1/2 " so I could get 5 ply.

Check Amm's link in this post (marine-plywood.usdouglas...)
you will see that 3/8 inch specs out at 4 ply.

If I was going at it again I would consider the newer
high tech versions, okume ect.. $20.00 per sheet more but well worth it in the long run.


Michael

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Bill E
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Post by Bill E » Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:03 pm

billy c wrote:never heard of that!
i thought plywood was made of an odd number of plies so that the 2 outside faces run the same direction and dont twist or warp.
learn something new here everyday!
-Billy
In construction grade sheathing plywood, 4-ply 1/2" is the good stuff. 3-ply is the norm. True, in odd-count plywood, every layer is turned 90 degrees from the previous. In 4-ply, the center two plies are turned the same way (across the sheet). This still creates a balanced assembly, because you have the same grain orientation on both sides of the center plane.

At least in CDX-grade plywood, one of the benefits of 4-ply vs. 3-ply has to do with spreading out defects and minimizing their size. A split or knot hole in a single ply that's 1/4 of the thickness of your plywood is better compensated for by the strength of the other 3 layers than a defect in a layer that's 1/3 of the thickness with only 2 other plies to compensate. Hope this makes sense.
little minnow wrote:Also, I found out that white oak does not accept apoxy very well, causes bubbling. can I use white pine in place of oak?
As for White Oak and epoxy, I've heard of the same issues, and there's plenty of anecdotal evidence that it both is and is not something to worry about. In my restoration of a '57 Thompson, I'm going to be using Smith's CPES (clear penetrating epoxy sealer) on just about everything below the waterline, and I went ahead and bought some Smith's O&T (oak and teak) epoxy for those places where I'll be gluing oak together.

I normally don't think of oak as an oily wood, in the sense of teak and other tropical hardwoods, but I think that's what gives it a lot of its natural rot resistance. Some folks say to wipe the joint with acetone or other solvent before applying epoxy to remove the oil. Maybe some pieces of w.o. are simply less oily than others. Maybe some folks just got lucky, or maybe it depends on the brand of epoxy. At any rate, if you believe the Smith's literature, their epoxy products are made largely from natural wood resins vs. petroleum resins, which lets them bond more readily with these woods. They have two (or more?) specially formulated epoxies for hard-to-bond woods, including their all-wood epoxy and the O&T that I got. The two sources I found were Jamestown Distributors and Star Distributing at http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/ and http://www.star-distributing.com

The latter's website is a little tough to navigate, but I found their prices a little better with shipping factored in. I just received my shipment before going on vacation a couple of weeks ago, and since my return, I've been too swamped to even try them, but that's the route I've chosen for my project. For the price, I'd probably limit my use of Smith's O&T to glued joints and then use some other standard epoxy product for fiberglass laminating, etc.
By the way, Smith's also has "Fill-It", an epoxy-based filler that's supposed to be good for covering screw heads, etc. I bought a small unit of that to try, as well. Ask me in a few months how I like all this stuff, but go ahead and give the Smith's material a read.

...and NO, I would NOT recommend using pine anywhere structural that the plans specify oak or mahogany!

My $0.02,

-wte
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Bill Eason -- Atlanta, GA
Got my Malahini plans Christmas 2007! (The book arrived Jan 3...)
Found the 1957 Thompson Sea Lancer Jan 9... :-/ Bought it Jan 21!

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billy c
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Post by billy c » Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:28 am

In construction grade sheathing plywood, 4-ply 1/2" is the good stuff. 3-ply is the norm. True, in odd-count plywood, every layer is turned 90 degrees from the previous. In 4-ply, the center two plies are turned the same way (across the sheet). This still creates a balanced assembly, because you have the same grain orientation on both sides of the center plane.
thanks Mike and Bill E for the info will reprogram my thinking on that one... i was hoping the outer skins were going different directions :lol: i always end up with a piece of plywood the right size and the grain going the wrong way!
-Billy
(insert Witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

little minnow
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Post by little minnow » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:35 pm

Thank you to all who replied regarding the plywood and white oak. I appreciate all of your suggestions and comments. you have been very helpful.

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kens
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Post by kens » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:21 pm

Since you are in Fla., I would go to the place in Vero, or to Worldpanel in Jupiter, since E-boat buys their stuff from Worldpanel. Also, I believe you can purchase special stuff from Worldpanel, and have it drop-shipped to the joint in Vero; double check me on that though, I heard it somewhere.
Anyway, I would buy 9mm imported BS1088 long before anything made here in States. The States quality has gone that far down, even on marine grade stuff.
I bought 9mm BS1088 Meranti from Worldpanel, and it was great stuff; 7ply 9mm & 5 ply 6mm.

For your original question on White Pine vs White Oak, the short answer is NO. However, you may use Longleaf Yellow pine instead of Wh. Oak. As of recently there has been shipments of Sapele coming in, in place of Mahogany, this is a worthy consideration.

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Bill E
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Post by Bill E » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:05 pm

I'm pretty sure Tom Drake used sapele on his Zip -- beautiful!

If you do go with longleaf YP, I'd definitely look into one of the all-wood or tropical/teak epoxies from Smith due to the resin content of the wood.

My $0.01, :-)

-wte
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Bill Eason -- Atlanta, GA
Got my Malahini plans Christmas 2007! (The book arrived Jan 3...)
Found the 1957 Thompson Sea Lancer Jan 9... :-/ Bought it Jan 21!

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