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 Post subject: Re: CRACKER BOX
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:55 am
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Location: Co.Dublin, Ireland.
My donor boat came today and I don't know what to do she is immaculate and started up first turn of the key, I was expecting she would be a bit rough and tatty and I would have no prob stripping her down but there is not even a mark on the rub rails. I would love to keep her but then divorce would be on the cards.

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Malahini, SEAN-NÓS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd6vkPjEy4U

crackerbox build http://s753.photobucket.com/albums/xx17 ... =slideshow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfNjkhMRt40


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 Post subject: Re: CRACKER BOX
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:40 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:55 am
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Location: Co.Dublin, Ireland.
well I started to strip my donor boat today and the engine is ready to lift out and get a face lift, the rudder has a plate on it I hope it will be ok to use, I am still up in the air about using the gearbox in my standard cracker box has anyone done it and what are main downfalls, I am not going for a top end speed just looks and sound and a bit of fun.

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I also picked up some planks of 4'' by 6mm
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Malahini, SEAN-NÓS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd6vkPjEy4U

crackerbox build http://s753.photobucket.com/albums/xx17 ... =slideshow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfNjkhMRt40


Last edited by fergal butler on Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CRACKER BOX
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:33 am
Posts: 2336
Location: Owasso, Oklahoma
Lookin' good!

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I told my wife we needed a three-car garage for my projects...she told me to ask her for permission next time before I buy a house.
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 Post subject: Re: CRACKER BOX
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:25 am 
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Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 5:05 am
Posts: 668
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Great progress Fergal!

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http://picasaweb.google.com/11229065623 ... directlink


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 Post subject: Re: CRACKER BOX
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:00 pm
Posts: 1488
Location: Leduc (Edmonton), Alberta
Ugg.. you're going to be done your 2nd before I am done my 1st!

Your 'donor' boat is in a lot better shape than mine was. I had no qualms tossing it off the back end of the trailer and stripping it down for parts to resell.

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My Malahini Build


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 Post subject: Re: CRACKER BOX
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:55 am
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Location: Co.Dublin, Ireland.
Thanks guys, now I am now entering uncharted waters with the planking and an inboard engine so it will be a lot slower from now on.
Your right Iggy the boat is in great shape I was in two minds what to do with it, now I hope to patch up the holes strengthen the transom and put an outboard on a jack plate then sell it on and get more boatbuilding money. :lol:

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Malahini, SEAN-NÓS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd6vkPjEy4U

crackerbox build http://s753.photobucket.com/albums/xx17 ... =slideshow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfNjkhMRt40


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 Post subject: Re: CRACKER BOX
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:40 pm
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Location: Chelsea, Quebec, Canada
Now you've done it, Fergal ! Don't go the outboard route :shock: Get another donor boat to repower the donor boat :wink:

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Building the Glen-L Hot Rod : http://www.boats.chelseacoachworks.com


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 Post subject: Re: CRACKER BOX
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:57 pm 
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Location: Co.Dublin, Ireland.
If you ask my wife to let me buy another boat I will do that. :lol:
On another matter Mr hot rod just on the off chance you may know these guys "Berkshire wooden boats" I have been looking into a boat called "scolopendra" She was one of the first power boats and raced here in Ireland in 1903 and I think those guys have her, I would love to find out anything about her and maybe rebuild her and bring her back to race again. Here is what I have so far.
http://www.dukesmeadowstrust.org/thorny ... endra.html
http://www.acbs.ca/dock_lines.cfm?actio ... ticleid=22
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It was speedily recognized that special methods of construction would have to be employed if the internal combustion engine were to be rendered satisfactory for marine propulsion.

Several eminent firms, such as Messrs. J. I. Thornycroft and Co., Ltd., and D. Napier and Sons, to mention only two instances began to turn their attention seriously to the industry. As an outcome of this development a cup was offered by Lord Northcliffe, then Mr. Alfred Harmsworth, for international competition, the contest to be confined to boats of a maximum overall length of 40 feet, built and engined in the country which they represented, no other restrictions being imposed.

In 1903, the first race for this cup was held at Cork, there being three competitors. It was unfortunate that time did not permit of any foreign entries, although it is true that a Mercedes launch actually did come over, but was ineligible to compete, as the hull was constructed in France and the engines in Germany.

It was decided to race for this cup in heats, as it was thought by several members of the committee that the wave-making of these fast launches would be excessive and would preclude the possibility of many competitors racing together. This supposition has, of course, been shown to have been based on a fallacy, a well designed hull making very little wash, even at a speed of over 20 knots. It may be remembered that Napier I, designed by Mr. Linton Hope, and engined by Napier, was the only 40-footer taking part in the contest. This boat was the first of a series of racing launches engines by Napier and Co., and presents many interesting features. The hull was built of 20 gauge steel, there being no keel but two longitudinal girders were fitted extending from stem to stern, which also served as engine bearers. The engine was a four cylinder Napier motor giving about 66 b.h.p The design was immensely rigid, all four cylinders being contained in one casting. This rigidity of design without doubt contributed largely to the successful performance of the boat.

The best speed ever shown by Napier I was 18.8 knots while running at Cowes. The other competitors were two 30-foot launches. One was the Durandel, designed by Mr. E. Wort, and engined by the Motor Manufacturing Company, Coventry, with an 8-cylinder engine reported to develop 50 horse-power. The method of hull construction of this boat is interesting. She was built by Saunders on his well-known system of three or more skins of mahogany sewn together with copper wire. The other entrant was the Scolopendra, constructed of Wood by F. Maynard, of Chiswick, and engined by Thornycroft and Co., with a 4 cylinder motor developing 20 horse-power.

Considering her low horse-power, the Scolopendra was undoubtedly the most efficient boat in the competition, easily making 15 knots. The course for this race was laid in Cork Harbour, and was 7.8 sea miles in length. The Napier ultimately won the cup, accomplishing her heat and the final at a mean speed of 18 knots.

In 1903 was introduced for the first time in our waters motor-launch racing on a regular organised basis, with recognised rules for measurement, rating, and time allowance between different boats. I may say that launch racing had been popular for some considerable time in America, the favourite propulsive agent being petrol, both used in an internal combustion engine and instead of water in a steam-jacketted boiler, and thence conveyed to an ordinary steam engine.

Early in the year of 1903 the Marine Motor Association was started, and, after collecting all the information possible, it formulated its rules for assessing the power of motors---or "motor power" as it was termed by this body---and thence ascertaining the rating of the boats. It mat be remarked that the American Power Boat Association which was started some months later, practically adopted our rules for motor power, and rating with but few modifications.

The most important event of this year was the first of the annual reliability trials for motor boats organised by the Automobile Club through its Marine Motor Committee, which was formed in 1903 at the suggestion of Lord Boverton Redwood. This "reliability trial" was intended to be an endurance test chiefly for cruising boats, and consisted of two days running under observation, the duration of the daily run being 10 hours. A large number of entries ws secured, and the contest was undoubtedly of great benefit both to manufacturers and users. The title of the Harmsworth Cup was in this year altered at the request of the donor to that of the British International Cup, and the race for this trophy created great interest. France challenged with Trefle-a-Quatre, Gardner-Serpollet and Clement-Bayard, and America with Challenger.

The rules provided that only three boats were to be represent any one country, and as there were five British defenders for the cup, it was necessary to hold an eliminating race for them. One of the entrants for this was Napier-Minor, a 35-foot boat built by Saunders on his patent system, and engined by Napier with a 4-cylinder 80 b.h.p motor. This engine was of the same type as that installed in Napier I, possessing immense structural strength. The second entrant for the race was Napier II, built of steel by Yarrow and Co., who from this time forward took an active interest in the industry. As a matter of fact, the hull of Napier II proved somewhat unsatisfactory, and another was put in hand. Messrs. J. I. Thornycroft's Champak and Lord Howard DeWalden's Fer de Lance never materialised, so that Hutton I, the fifth entrant was left to walk over the course, which she did not succeed in doing.

Hutton I was a remarkable vessel, and possessed every feature requisite for high speed, with the exception of an engine that could be started, or when started could be kept running. The hull was a very pretty one, designed by Linton Hope and Co. of mahogany carvel. The accompanying illustration gives a good idea of her design, which at that time was quite novel, and at any period might justly be described as an extreme type. It can be seen that the hull was cigar-shaped, and consequently possessed great strength, although the weight was only 6 cwt. The engine of the Hutton I was a 6-cylinder one of fearful and wonderful design. There were two inlet and two exhaust valves for each cylinder worked by a hinged overhead rod. These valves, I may say, were originally designed to have their heads secured to the stems by means of ball and socket joints. The water jackets were separate from the cylinders, and were secured to the flange on the cylinders. Structural weaknesses of crank chamber and of valves, preignition due to high compression, faulty carburation and inefficient water circulation were among the causes contributing to the non-success of this engine. Of the French boats only Trefle-a-Quatre and Clement-Bayard came over, and the latter was early in trouble and never started. Trefle-a-Quatre was credited with being at that time the fastest motor boat in the world. She was only 30 feet 2 3/4 inches in length, and was equipped with a Richard-Brasier motor of about 60 horse-power. Previously, during the Monaco races, she covered 124 1/2 miles at an average rate of 23 1.2 miles per hour. The American boat, Challenger, was built and engined by Smith and Mabley, and presented no extraordinary features. The final heat of this race was won by Napier-Minor, but the cup was awarded to Trefle-a-Quatre on a technicality.

In 1905, such was the growth of the industry that the Marine Motor Committee of the Automobile Club found that they were quite unable to cope with the situation, and accordingly the Motor Yacht Club was formed to carry on the work relative to the reliability trials and the British International Cup, both of which events had been previously organised and conducted by the Marine Motor Committee of the Automobile Club. A large number of entries were received in 1905 for the reliability trials, one firm, Messrs. Thornycroft, entering no less than five boats. The most interesting vessel entered by Thornycroft and Co. for the reliability trials was the Emil Capitaine, a type of harbour launch propelled by an internal combustion engine of 75 b.h.p, employing producer gas as a fuel.

The 1905 eliminating race to decide the British team for the International Cup race was held at Seaview, Isle of Wight, and there were five entrants. One of these was Hutton II, a new racer very similar to Hutton I which I have already described in detail. The engine was in fact the same with a few details improved and strengthened, and the hull was very similar, but of slightly greater displacement. Hutton II, however, broke down before the start. The fastest competitor on paper was Brooke I, designed by Shepherd, and built and engined by Brooke and Co., of Lowescroft, with a 6-cylinder engine, each cylinder being 10 inches in diameter. This boat never ran satisfactorily, owing, it was said, to the difficulty of maintaining a requisite supply of petrol for the huge engine. Another entrant was Napier II. The hull of this boat was built by Yarrow and Co. of steel, being an improvement on the previous year's boat of the same name. Two 4-cylinder 80 horse-power Napier engines, driving twin screws, were installed.

On this boat a raised seat for the helmsman is provided right aft and is protected by a dodger. It has been found by experience that it is preferable to steer these fast small boats from aft, and I have found from personal experience that some form of protection from the flying spray is necessary. This spray constitutes the chief drawback to motor-boat racing as and amusement, and as its velocity is very high, the impact is most un-pleasant. The general sensation of driving a motor boat is very reminiscent of a stroll beneath Niagara Falls, with this difference, that in the former case you are unable to gain relief by shutting your eyes, as it is necessary to keep a sharp look out. The fourth entrant was Napier, owned by Lord Howard DeWalden. The hull was built by Saunders on his patented system which I have already described, and the engine was the old 80 horse-power motor taken out of Napier-Minor.

The other entrant was the Competitor, owned by my friend, Commander Mansfield Cumming, R.N., and in it I had the pleasure of racing.

The hull may easily be recognised in the photograph as that of the old Napier-Minor, and the engine was a 100 horse-power Siddeley, constructed by the Wolseley Tool and Motor Car Co. In this race, every boat except Napier II broke down, and it was decided to hold another eliminating race in the Southampton Water for Napier, Brooke I, and Competitor. In this race, Napier finished first, Competitor second, and Brooke I broke down. Ultimately Competitor relinquished her place in the team in favour of Brooke I, as it was thought that the latter could be got into racing condition in time for the Cup race, which was to be held at Arachon.

France showed extraordinary apathy over this contest, and it was only by the energy of a few private owners, that a semblance of defence was made with cruising boats. The Cup was ultimately won by Napier II, which had run well and consistently throughout the season, only having lost the cross Channel race by an error of her helmsman in passing the finishing mark on the wrong side.

The highest speeds attained by racing vessels in 1905 were 25.75 knots by Napier II, and 25 knots by Hutton II, during a short trial run. Recently during the present year a 40-foot launch named Legru Hotchkiss has attained an enormous speed of 29.65 knots during a run of 10 minutes. The hull of this vessel was designed by Linton Hope in 1904, and she was built on the Saunders system. Many motors have been installed, but the present engine with which the record run was accomplished ia an 8-cylinder Hotchkiss of 170 b.h.p.


I think we should move fast on this before it slips through the net for another 100 years and worry about the restore another day.Even if we have to get a loan and pay it back through club membership as long as we get her or at least a deposit on her.She looks in great shape for her age and with the two plaques it would be worth it.This is a once in a life time buy and if it was a classic car with a history like this it would be priceless.


(

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Malahini, SEAN-NÓS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd6vkPjEy4U

crackerbox build http://s753.photobucket.com/albums/xx17 ... =slideshow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfNjkhMRt40


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 Post subject: Re: CRACKER BOX
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:55 am
Posts: 1231
Location: Co.Dublin, Ireland.
Just my luck when putting on the first plank my staple gun fired two shots and then gave up so I had to screw it on before it set, :( I filled the holes with resin mixed with sawdust from the planks. I coated the plank and the boat with resin first then I used a mix of west 405 filler and 423 graphite power to give me black lines,not to sure if I should of left bright now but only time will tell. I will be doing the chalking in black too.
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Malahini, SEAN-NÓS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd6vkPjEy4U

crackerbox build http://s753.photobucket.com/albums/xx17 ... =slideshow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfNjkhMRt40


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 Post subject: Re: CRACKER BOX
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:55 am
Posts: 1231
Location: Co.Dublin, Ireland.
Just a quick question about the bottom planking over the ply. I have the sides done and want to bring the bow section up to meet the sides, do you do it the same way as the plywood going from a lap joint to a butt joint also would you run them lengthways or at an angle from the center line to get the best bright finish, I was thinking the step in the join from lap to butt might look a bit out of place,This is the way one side is working out. Any thoughts would be great thanks.

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Malahini, SEAN-NÓS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd6vkPjEy4U

crackerbox build http://s753.photobucket.com/albums/xx17 ... =slideshow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfNjkhMRt40


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 Post subject: Re: CRACKER BOX
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:06 pm 
Ferg, are you using bottom paint?

If so, maybe have the transition joint far enough back to be covered with paint.

You can also just do a butt joint all the way to the stern if bright, it's just more work.


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 Post subject: Re: CRACKER BOX
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:56 am 
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Location: Co.Dublin, Ireland.
The transition joint will not be covered by the paint it is a bit close to the bow I was thinking of cutting along the top of the blue tape so it will follow the line of the boat as I don't want the step showing in the bright finish, will that work.
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Also what would be the best way to bring the bottom planking to meet the side should I go length ways or come down at an angle, Thanks in advance.
Image

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Malahini, SEAN-NÓS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd6vkPjEy4U

crackerbox build http://s753.photobucket.com/albums/xx17 ... =slideshow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfNjkhMRt40


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 Post subject: Re: CRACKER BOX
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:07 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:55 am
Posts: 1231
Location: Co.Dublin, Ireland.
While I am at it, I have started work on the engine as it has been raining here for a few weeks. After doing a compression test I found I was down on two cylinders hoping it was the head gasket as there was water in them I removed the head and found this :shock: the result of last winter and the engine not been winterised. Back to the drawing board :evil:
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Malahini, SEAN-NÓS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd6vkPjEy4U

crackerbox build http://s753.photobucket.com/albums/xx17 ... =slideshow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfNjkhMRt40


Last edited by fergal butler on Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CRACKER BOX
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:34 am 
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Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 11:47 pm
Posts: 1833
Location: Ogden, Utah-Jubilee build
:roll: If it is the same engine from eariler in post looks like a small block chev eng I know they might be rare there but here you can find the block in alot of places it problly could be a reqular auto engine and just tansfer your marine parts over bad bit of luck there mate :? :(

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 Post subject: Re: CRACKER BOX
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:00 pm
Posts: 1488
Location: Leduc (Edmonton), Alberta
Ouch... man am I sorry to see that Fergal. :(

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Ian (aka Iggy)
My Malahini Build


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