The Princess Project

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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wbbaer
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The Princess Project

Post by wbbaer » Sat May 15, 2010 12:16 pm

I am starting a new thread here to go with the start of my Monaco building project. Last weekend I bought materials and began construction. So far I have completed frame 8, the stem and the breasthook and have the parts cut for frame 7. We are having an engagement party this weekend for our daughter for whom the project is named, so I won't have a lot of time for the boat until Monday. I am learning as I go to use the epoxy, transfer the blueprints and many other things TNTM. I have been thinking about frame notching which will be an important part of the next phase. I am not cutting the notches as I build the frames but decided to wait until the frames are mounted and trued up. A router and a jig would work but I came across a tool called the Fein Multimaster. It is a shortstroke rotary oscillating saw. From what I can see, it seems ideal for the purpose and it does not require a jig. Does anyone have experience with this or a similar tool and is there any advice offered? I am going to put the building jig on casters a la Bruce Dow.
Last edited by wbbaer on Thu May 20, 2010 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bill

Built a Monaco named: Princess

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DaveLott
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Re: The Princess Project

Post by DaveLott » Sat May 15, 2010 12:45 pm

Bill _ I don't have one but my son does and we have used it extensively in a circa 1895 home refurb. Wonderful tool.

There have been many methods to cut the notches: jig with routers, circular saw, hand saw, jig saw, japanese saw.

I personally set up a jig for the router to cut the keel but ended up doing the rest be hand because the curvature in the frames does not allow the router base to lay down level. The most common method is to simply use a hand saw (I used a japanese pull saw) and cut several notches to depth. Then placing a chisel between the notches and hitting it with a sharp blow causes the notched pieces to break out cleanly. A little cleanup with a chisel and presto - a servicable notch.

On the deck, I was able to use the router and jig for all the notches because I could get the router base to lay level. That is by far the best method but, as said, the concave frame pieces on the bottom cause problems.

Have fun - you have 216 notches +/- to go!!!
Dave

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daniel
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Re: The Princess Project

Post by daniel » Tue May 18, 2010 3:16 am

Bosch does a multi tool that is alot cheaper and there are also several cordless versions that will all be cheaper than the Fein. We are currently looking at the Bosch cordless version for work over the Fein, but the Fein is the best one out just really expensive. A Dremel or similar multi tool will make tight cuts easily with the right attachments.

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BruceDow
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Re: The Princess Project

Post by BruceDow » Tue May 18, 2010 4:34 am

Whatever you do, you need a highly repeatable process. I would practice by doing several practices on scrap. I tried the router approach, but could never get over the splintering without either taking many small passes (took too long) or complex set-up with sacrificial pieces clamped on the outside (again... too long).

The way I found to be fastest was to take about six swipes with a circular saw (blade depth set correctly), then knock out the waste with a chisel.

I am not sure about the tools you are describing, and how the process would work, but the method that I would like to try "next time" is to use a roto-zip (spin saw)tool. I will make a template that will quickly clamp to the side of the frame, then run the saw "down, across, up"

[Edit] With the spinsaw approach, I bet that you could even work your limbers into the template... "diagonal - down - across - up"
Bruce.

~~ Do what you love, and love what you do. ~~
~~ To me - only my boat is not yet perfect. Everybody else's is to be admired for I know the path they have walked (Dave Lott, 2010) ~~
Dow's Monaco Project

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jamundsen
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Re: The Princess Project

Post by jamundsen » Tue May 18, 2010 1:20 pm

I bought the Dremel multi tool a couple months ago and love it.
John Amundsen
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Work tends to get in the way of boat building

daniel
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Re: The Princess Project

Post by daniel » Wed May 19, 2010 1:10 am

if you have trouble with a router spliting the timber do a rough cit first with a jig saw as close to the line as you can then go backwards with the router slowly and always use a sharp bit

wbbaer
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Re: The Princess Project

Post by wbbaer » Thu May 20, 2010 10:59 am

Keeping up to date: I have made the stem, breasthook and frames 7 and 8 and now starting on frame 2. It gets easier and quicker as I get more experience in transferring the lines from the blueprints to my worktable and the wood. I am using pre-drilled holes in the frame members and drywall screws into the worktable to hold the parts in alignment for gluing. I have learned to use a 1/8" pilot hole for #8 screws in white oak and to drive the last couple of turns with a hand screwdriver rather than a driver-drill to avoid burring the bronze screw socket. Paraffin in the threads helps, also.

I am gluing up with Glen-L Poxy-Grip which is messy but I plan to sand off the drips and later coat with Poxy-Shield. I have bolted the deck beams without glue as advised by a couple of people. I can glue them up later.

When I made the first frame parts I transferred the outlines from blueprint to wood, cut outside the line on the bandsaw and finished to the line on the spindle sander. Then I cut a duplicate part using a template bit on the table router. On the next frame I transferred the outline and bandsawed both parts in a stack close to the line and did a little finish sanding on the belt sander. Much quicker and still accurate. I am using a round-over bit in the table router to break all exposed internal edges such as the oak frame segments and floor timbers both for appearance and for preservation of knees and elbows later.

I am attaching the gussets with glue and 1" stainless steel staples. Nailing into white oak may not be my best skill even with pilot holes. Once the glue sets the fasteners should be redundant. I bought a pneumatic stapler and a box of SS staples that cost more than the tool itself.

I am still thinking about the Fein tool. In the end I will probably spring for it. The narrow saw blade appears ideal for cutting notches. It has a crevice sanding attachment that would be nice to have to prepare the grooves between deck strakes for filling.

More later. This has been a busy week: last weekend we put on an engagement party for our daughter and today my wife is having some surgery.
Bill

Built a Monaco named: Princess

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BruceDow
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Re: The Princess Project

Post by BruceDow » Thu May 20, 2010 11:13 am

Thanks for the updates, Bill.

We'll need to teach you how to post your pictures!

It sounds like you are making great progress, and learning from the others who have gone before you. (I wish I had rounded all of the corners of the frames and battens that are on the inside of my boat)

Keep it up!
Bruce.

~~ Do what you love, and love what you do. ~~
~~ To me - only my boat is not yet perfect. Everybody else's is to be admired for I know the path they have walked (Dave Lott, 2010) ~~
Dow's Monaco Project

wbbaer
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Re: The Princess Project

Post by wbbaer » Thu May 20, 2010 11:52 am

I had planned to put in a photo or two but don't have access to the files at the moment. I am at the hospital waiting area with my laptop and the files are on my desktop machine at home and I can't get the remote link to work.
Bill

Built a Monaco named: Princess

Dwain the ski king
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Re: The Princess Project

Post by Dwain the ski king » Fri May 21, 2010 6:59 pm

Bill, I live in Estacada, 25 miles SE of Portland...If you would like to talk(about boatbuilding) I'd be willing....(WILL TALK FOR FREE) (Bruce, do not comment)....I built a Ski King, so have a little experience, and I saw/rode in Bruce's boat so have something to compare to!!!!!HAHAHAHAAHA....Anyway my # is 503-631-7238...Will keep track of your progress....Actually Bruce's boat IS pretty nice...........Dwain, The SKIIIIIIIIIIIII KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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BruceDow
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Re: The Princess Project

Post by BruceDow » Sat May 22, 2010 4:00 am

Dwain will talk for free. (I think you need to pay him NOT to talk (grin))

Good to hear from you Dwain.
Bruce.

~~ Do what you love, and love what you do. ~~
~~ To me - only my boat is not yet perfect. Everybody else's is to be admired for I know the path they have walked (Dave Lott, 2010) ~~
Dow's Monaco Project

upspirate

Re: The Princess Project

Post by upspirate » Sun May 23, 2010 6:33 am

Be careful talking with Ski king....he'll talk you into installing an inline six with a supercharger or six carbs!!! :wink: :lol:

upspirate

Re: The Princess Project

Post by upspirate » Sun May 23, 2010 6:34 am

It does sound like you did some listening,and learning fro the forum.

Sounds like a great start

wbbaer
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Location: Portland, OR

Re: The Princess Project

Post by wbbaer » Mon May 24, 2010 6:42 am

Update:
Preoccupied a bit this weekend so not too much got done on the Princess. The princess herself came home on Saturday for the weekend to attend the Father-Daughter dinner dance at our club. This is the twenty-ninth consecutive event which we have attended. We started in 1982 when she was not yet two. This year the club had to hold the event on two nights-Sat. and Sun.-to accommodate all the nearly 800 Dads and daughters who signed up. She has allways been her Daddy's princess hence the name of the project. Last weekend we put on an engagement party for her and her fiance. He is in many ways a lot like me and I regard her choice as a compliment that she would choose for her life partner someone like her Dad.

Her Mom, my own sweetie, had a little surgery last week but is recovering remarkably rapidly. Between these activities I finished another frame and have most of the parts cut to assemble yet another. I am still refining the process of transferring and cuttting the wood. I have settled for now on making a paper pattern of each piece and transferring it to wood and bandsawing to the line, cutting duplicate pieces in a stack.

I have the idea of using large disposable irrigating syringes to measure out the epoxy components for mixing. I can get them cheaply from Central Supply at the hospital. I also can get tongue depressor sticks for mixing by the box and vinyl gloves by the box.

Attached is a photo of my workshop at the outset of the project. More will follow.
Attachments
_MG_4700 copy.jpg
Bill

Built a Monaco named: Princess

upspirate

Re: The Princess Project

Post by upspirate » Mon May 24, 2010 6:57 am

Nice shop.

On the mixing sticks,be sure the end is square so that you can scrape to the bottom of the container.....rounded sticks won't mix well

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