Monaco speed trials

Report the performance of your boat, supply as much information as possible (weight, HP, prop, speed, etc.).
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garrys
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Monaco speed trials

Post by garrys » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:16 pm

I had my Monaco out for it's third sea trial this past weekend (5/30/09). In one short burst the GPS speedometer "pegged" out at 53 MPH. I had more throttle and RPM left to go but frankly the speed and handling began to scare me. This is a 60 year old hull design and isn't intended to be stable at those speeds. With prop and engine tweaking I'll bet I could get 60 MPH out of it, but I have no intention of taking it to those speeds.........unless in absolutely perfect water conditions. 30 MPH is the perfect cruising speed for this boat.

The engine is an Indmar 350 CI, 310 HP fuel injected, through a 1.25:1 tranny and turning a 14X16 4 blade prop. I've no idea what the boat weighs but I'm guessing somewhere around 2,000 lbs.

Garry Stout
Tampa, FL

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BruceDow
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Re: Monaco speed trials

Post by BruceDow » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:43 pm

Yowza!

How is the steering? Did you get the rudder balanced?
Bruce.

~~ Do what you love, and love what you do. ~~
~~ To me - only my boat is not yet perfect. Everybody else's is to be admired for I know the path they have walked (Dave Lott, 2010) ~~
Dow's Monaco Project

garrys
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Re: Monaco speed trials

Post by garrys » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:03 am

I got the rudder balanced........by adding on 1" to the leading edge and removing 1" from the trailing edge and removing 1" from the bottom edge. This made a significant difference and much better steering. Still........just a little more steering effort than I want. I'll next swap out my Teleflex steering hub for a higher ratio one. My current hub is 3 turns full left to full right rudder. Teleflex makes a 5 turn hub, which should lighten my steering effort. Finally, if needed, I may have to re-route my steering cable from a right side hub exit to a left side hub exit with a very gentle bend in the cable to route it down the center of the bilge and under the engine. The current right side hub exit requires an extremely sharp 90 degree bend and routes the cable along the right side gunwale..........thus creating friction. So, lots of experimenting and making little changes to get things where I want them to be.

Here's my dilemma. As an experienced semi-professional ski boat driver I am used to driving top of the line, state of the art boats. This is my base line for comparison of the performance and handling of my Monaco. What I don't know is will I ever be able to get my Monaco to handle like a 2009 MasterCraft? Probably not, as the Monaco hull design is 50 years old, back when 85 HP was the max and 35 MPH was tops. I'm thinking it's like restoring a 1955 T-Bird car...........pretty to look at but certainly doesn't handle like a 2009 Corvette.

What do y'all think?

Garry

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Re: Monaco speed trials

Post by Oyster » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:49 am

I understand where you are coming from when discussing older designs and speeds. I personally did a Simmons Sea Skiff that is basically a square ended dory design built more handling surf type swells and working nets out of and turned them into pleasure boats. I added a 115 E-tec on a boat that runs just fine with a 50 to even the most extreme 70 hp outboard engine. There are things that you can do to improve the bottoms for high speed steering, but overall top end speeds and handling cannot be improved when you exceed hull speeds.

This has long been a problem with outer banks hulls in the 50 foot range too. Sometimes its nice to have the added hp for additional loading, but also nice to be able to run at midrange rpms too these days, especially as you are old. :( There are things that you can indeed do to the bottoms and to the chines that will improve steering at high speeds. But of course this will make you undo some finish work too after the boats all rigged and decked out.

bob smith
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Re: Monaco speed trials

Post by bob smith » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:12 am

Thanks for your update. I'm particularly interested in what handling issues developed that caused your concern. Can you elaborate?
Bob Smith
Chester, SC
Bob Smith
Chester, SC

garrys
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Re: Monaco speed trials

Post by garrys » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:38 am

Bob, good question and I'll try to answer. Keep in mind that I'm not a naval architect or engineer and I don't even know all the proper terms, but I'll try. My comments are also applicable only to the "runabout" class of boats........16 to 21 feet.

Due to limited horsepower engines, boats designed in the 1930's and 1940's were what they refer to as "displacement" hulls, rather than todays "planeing" hulls. Meaning that the hulls never got "on the step". As such, the bows of the hulls presented a vertical profile to the water........the bow parted the water and the entire length of the hull was "under water" at all speeds. In the 1950's as engines became more powerful and designers got smarter, they realized that a planeing hull would achieve better efficiency and better speed, so they began sloping the bow rearward.....somewhat. I think they call it "deadrise", and that slope is determined by the shape of what we call the breasthook in our Glen-L plans. The Monaco is about midway between the old vertical bows and todays sharply raked bows.

Over the years the designers also began to add more "V" to the bottom of the hulls, added lifting strakes, and shifted the center of gravity rearward. The effect of this was to yield a smoother more stable ride, a dryer ride, and keep the forward 2/3rds of the boat out of the water at all but slow speeds, ie: keep the boat on plane down to 15 knots or so. With the Monaco design the rear 1/3rd of the boat is almost flat (no "V"), and even at higher speeds there is more hull surface in contact with the water than with "modern" boats.

The result of all of this is that at say 50 MPH the Monaco has a slight tendency to chine walk or roll slightly from side to side.......an occilation cycle of about 2 to 4 seconds from side to side. The feeling is one of slight instability versus a rock solid feeling in today's boats. Also, at speeds down around 20 MPH, 2/3rds or so of the hull is "displacing" the water. If you then turn full rudder in either direction at that speed, you are momentarily presenting the hull sideways or perpendicular to the direction of travel, which throws up a wall of water from the windshield aft. And it's really noticable if you simultaneously give it full throttle while the steering wheel is cranked all the way over. The nose wants to "dig in" rather than rise up onto plane.

None of these idosyncracies are show stoppers. You simply have to learn how the boat handles at various speeds and turning angles, and drive accordingly. The boat is a great boat and I take nothing away from it. Just understand that you can't reasonably expect this 50 year old design to perform and handle like a high performance sports car. Take it for what it is, and enjoy it!!!!!!!! I do !!!!!!!!

I'm sure that there are folks out on the forum who are WAY smarter and much more knowledgeable than I when it comes to naval architecture. I'm just a dumb ol driver who notices the subtle differences in handling between classic designed hulls and modern ones. My explantion of why these differences are just guesses on my part. I hope this helps.

Garry Stout
Tampa, FL

Oyster
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Re: Monaco speed trials

Post by Oyster » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:40 am

Garry, you are a step ahead of many folks. You are willing to accept that all boats have some compromises and respect the same. I wish that others would read your replies and work through some noticable issues and operate their boats accordingly and not just bash the hull and designs which is done on numerous occasions. I have always stated that launching was only one step towards finishing a boat. A year of fine tuning is not uncommon even after tens of hulls have been built before you completed yours. Thats really another part of the fun and rewards. This also keeps you from starting another one too. Building a boatof your own is about the process, not the finish line, even though using it ain't that bad either.

garrys
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Re: Monaco speed trials

Post by garrys » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:59 am

Oyster, oh what words of wisdom you write. It IS about the building process as much as the finished project. Having built three airplanes I became restless and needed another project to keep me motivated in life. Thus the Monaco boat. At the age of 65 and retired, I find that your mind begins to get lazy without daily challenges. Building a boat challenges and stimulates the mind, and keeps you young in spirit.

Now on to the pleasures of the finished project! The Monaco is a Classic boat. You simply don't see them around very often, if at all. Wherever I go my boat draws a crowd, most of whom have never seen a classic boat in person. Towing the boat down the street and stopped at a stop light, people roll down their windows and remark what a beautiful boat it is. When at the launch ramp everyone gathers around and asks a million questions and takes photos of the boat. The other day I was cruising the Florida intercoastal waterway and every single boat passing in the opposite direction gave me a big thumbs up. I pulled into a waterfront restaurant, tied the boat up, and it took me 1/2 hour to get to the bar for a cold beer, what for the crowds of people who just had to know more about the boat. The most common question........"what year is it?". When I tell them it's a 2009 model and that I built it, they are incredulous! Talk about pride of craftsmanship, my chest swelled up to twice it's size.

So, if you want to pull professional level water skiers, buy a MasterCraft. If you think you just want to get onto the water "on the cheap", buy a used junker. But if you want to build something you can be proud of, with your own hands (and brains), and own a work of art, then build a Glen-L boat! For me, I just enjoy cruising around the many lakes and waterways in Florida and meeting all sorts of nice people. Such a conversation starter. And did I mention the boat is a chick magnet too?

Garry

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ttownshaw
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Re: Monaco speed trials

Post by ttownshaw » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:10 pm

I vote that we ban garrys from this forum. :lol: :lol:

His good nature, descriptive analysis, and craftmanship have left all in the dust. There is no room here for humility! :mrgreen:
Bill

I told my wife we needed a three-car garage for my projects...she told me to ask her for permission next time before I buy a house.
http://www.unitybuild.net

garrys
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Re: Monaco speed trials

Post by garrys » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:21 pm

Ah shucks. Now you're embarrasing me. :-) My boat has more than it's fair share of warts. I'm reminded of when I lived in Hollywood and routinely bumped into georgeous movie stars. YIKES !!!! Without their makup artist, the right lighting and a million dollar wardrobe they looked downright scary! Same with my boat......the photos look WAY much better than it does in person. Trust me on this! :-)

Garry

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Re: Monaco speed trials

Post by Oyster » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:55 pm

There are several tests that I tell people about when they are into previewing my work. I tell them that each boat I build I use the five, ten, twenty and forty foot rule. And if these sets of rules do not apply for them, I also can build using the greenback rule too for them. :lol: :lol: In most cases, the boat seems just fine to one and all.

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Fifty Plus
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Re: Monaco speed trials

Post by Fifty Plus » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:29 pm

Chick magnet? :? :o :shock: :mrgreen:

Nova SS
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Re: Monaco speed trials

Post by Nova SS » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:22 am

garrys wrote:Ah shucks. Now you're embarrasing me. :-) My boat has more than it's fair share of warts. I'm reminded of when I lived in Hollywood and routinely bumped into georgeous movie stars. YIKES !!!! Without their makup artist, the right lighting and a million dollar wardrobe they looked downright scary! Same with my boat......the photos look WAY much better than it does in person. Trust me on this! :-)

Garry
Thats only because you know where to look to find the warts. :wink: For the rest of us that werent there while you where building it I suspect it looks pretty much wart free...

upspirate

Re: Monaco speed trials

Post by upspirate » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:51 am

Once you get used to handling it at 60,no one will be able to see the warts!!!!! :wink: :lol:

Let me know when you get it back from the upholstery shop.

How about bringing it to Lake Tarpon or meeting me somewhere & I'll drop mine in & get some action shots?

Warren

garrys
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Re: Monaco speed trials

Post by garrys » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:49 am

Ok Warren, you're on. A photo shoot would be great!

Because the upholstery guy is "moonlighting" this job, he thinks it will take 5 or 6 weeks to complete. Bummer!

Garry

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