carolina skiff mod's

Questions about modifying a design

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harpoonhedd
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carolina skiff mod's

Post by harpoonhedd » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:08 pm

new poster here...I made this response to my initial post on the forum...any suggestions from folks here are appreciated...I am building a 20ft flat bottm work boat carolina dory/skiff style...

here is the initial & response post from new intros etc...


new member from Chincoteague Virginia...have been looking at plans for a 18-20 foot carolina style skiff (dory)...have been a cabinet maker and carpenter for 40 years...also have worked on many boats both power and sail doing repairs and likewise...I have been on the water all my life enjoying surfing,sailing and related ...

I would like to build a boat that resembles the old style work boats from this area( Maryland to the Carolinas)...I have some nice douglas fir available...also a good quality mahogany 1/2" plywood...I will coat the hull w/ fiberglass(west system)the plans I found here fit that target well...looking forward to reading the post's here learning from others...I am sure there is a wealth of information available here!

I really like the "little hunk" #560 ...maybe in a 20 foot version...possibly pull in the rear section a bit...



thanks for the response, I really appreciate it...I hear you about losing planing surface...I was thinking of only bringing in about 6 inches on the side...the same as the amount the gunwales project past the waterline...I am not sure whether or not I will use the motor well or just transom mount the outboard(probably a 25hp)...I have never been around a well mount, and dont know anything about that configuration...

I am basically trying to recreate a boat similar to the workboats I have been on( and worked and fished on) back when I lived on Ocracoke Island(NC) ...if you have ever seen one ...all white hulls with red bottom paint...the tradition back then(and now still)...very similar to the "little hunk" also other work boat plans I have seen on the net...I have been advised that a "slight" return would be advisable to assist w/ following seas..but would like to hear any remarks you have about that...

http://www.oldwharf.com/ow_wide_guide.html

http://www.oldwharf.com/ow_workskiffs.html

http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_cala.html

I plan on using the basic 2X4 frame risers to maximize on cockpit area...but will add gussets under the gunwales to faccilatate a wider washboard...also the angle on the last three or four risers would be reduced (in progression rear to mid) from about a 10-12 inch pitch to only 6...to do as you said max the amount of planing surface...

also any thoughts on running a simple 2X3" strip directly in line w/ the keelson??( 3" up)full length of the boat(flat bottom) to aid in pointing up...many of the old school waterman way back all swore by this...this would be added after fiberglassing and be something like a rub rail that could be replaced easily after wear...they also say that this would be a point of contact rather than directly rubbing the flat botton ...

I understand the plans from Glen dont require any "lofting" ...which would be a good starting point fo me too, giving me something I can cut out and apply to some masonite etc to make templates......also they said that the lengths can be modified easily...thanks again for any thoughts...t

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ted/harpoonhedd
chincoteague,virginia
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ted...artist/woodworker
chincoteague island,virginia

http://harpoonheddgallery.shutterfly.com/

Oyster
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Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:10 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: carolina skiff mod's

Post by Oyster » Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:08 pm

I will attempt to add some suggestions later on. But I will need to dig a bit deeper. I understand what you are saying. But I am also not too sure that the dory does not have some sort of tuck in the chine. One thing is for sure, the Swet Caroline with the well has the increased angle in the transom that deals with the following sea issue. In the mean time tell us where you plan on using the boat, please?

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harpoonhedd
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Re: carolina skiff mod's

Post by harpoonhedd » Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:24 pm

pretty much back waters around where I live...lots of territory...all inland bays and estuarys etc...but on a west wind day( offshore) w/ no surf ( summertime, good tide etc, typical june, july,august conditions)I would like to head out to a few local wrecks...hence the 25...

thanks for the response...t
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ted...artist/woodworker
chincoteague island,virginia

http://harpoonheddgallery.shutterfly.com/

Oyster
Posts: 4440
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:10 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: carolina skiff mod's

Post by Oyster » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:18 pm

Well flat bottom boats surely meets your needs for the majority of days. But with that said in your area the scows have some deadrise and even some tuck which you speak about. Most run what we call even keel, that means as the deadrise increases, the bottom and keel is still at minimum draft without drawing more than what even a flat bottom does anyway.
Lets look for a minute at Jimbo, a traditional double transom type garvey or scow thats a standard in your area.

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Personally I recommend a center console and build from the getgo or you will constantly be dealing with the bow pounding or quite possibly porpoising. You will be much happier if you plan on using your boat in open waters.
This is my arrangement which works out for the garvey design. You can do this on the dory too.

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With the tiller handle motor and bench seating, no matter what design you choose the angle will probably be the same anyway. But as you may know, its important to load foward any and all coolers and even gas if you carry more than six to nine gallons. With a tuck simular to your two examples on the other website, this also will cause more of an issue when you are confined in the transom area when running the boat.

I will add several unrelated designs in hopes that you will understand a bit of what I am describing.
Take a look at a traditional deadrise skiff from the bay.

deadrise skiff
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Even with the small vee entry that the boats incorporate, running in some chop and swell offshore will cause you some discomfort, especially in a flat bottom boat unless you are mindfull of your loading.

Lets look at the other dory style in the plans. This is Sweet Caroline.
If you look at the transom angle, it favors downsea running for small hulls in open waters and wind against the current inlets too.

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This is the Little Hunk. Notice the chines and the difference.
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Lets look at a real to life working skiff of the carolinas and what I actually did to convert one to a transom mounted motor, doing away with the well. So I can relate to what you are attempting to do. But one thing that we are carefull not to do here is to modify the actual hulls and boat plans, even though many will trick the interiors out to meet their needs.

This is a genuine well skiff that worked the waters and set nets for decades. I put a four inche tuck in this one. But this one was only 16 foot long. Hopefully you can see the transom is set up for an outboard motor.
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I put the deadrise bottom with the small vee on the entry.
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Hopefully this will give you a starting point.

For kicks since you mention Ocracoke, along the SOBX as you may know many of the working skiffs were inboard stick steering strip planked cedar skiffs.
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harpoonhedd
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Re: carolina skiff mod's

Post by harpoonhedd » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:02 am

Thanks so much Oyster for the detailed outline...the "sweet caroline" is def the direction I am heading...20 ft w/7' beam...building the hull is no problem for me...but a console is new...I am not familiar w/ the pulley system etc...and am a bit afraid of the idea of the first boat being more work...

since the outboard will be the biggest investment here, I might just get the hull done and glass...and leave provisions for other configurations...hopefully I can get it in the water by fall...I actually have another job too...LOL...

that said I am sure I can figure it out...the porposing you mentioned is something I am very concious of( always a sore spot indeed w/ the flat bottom design as you stated)...I usually put ballast in front to counteract it if I was singlehanded...I might go with the well as sort of a compromise...but here again I will get the hull done first...the framing will be done so that either a well or console could be built before glassing and coating. A console would be a nice project later too...

I have been looking for a kit of sorts for the wheel rigging in a console...I just have to look under the hood a bit more too of other boats...my experience has been leaning more to "britework" in reality...and some of the "nuts and bolts" is an area that I dont have much experience( glassing and mechanical)...but like I said I can learn.

the internet really helps getting info...and I am looking into some other areas now that I have determined what I want to build...I want to start when weather really breaks here...since I am building outdoors...thanks again...it was effort to put that post together...and I do appreciate it...

and yes I do remember the "stick" con used front/back style...this might be a good alternative to a wheel console...if you know of any plans or drawings etc please give me a link...several boats I remember had the stick on the starboard side...about 6-8 feet forward...leaving room for trot line rigs rear...which would for sure help w/ the the bow leaving the water under power...
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ted...artist/woodworker
chincoteague island,virginia

http://harpoonheddgallery.shutterfly.com/

Oyster
Posts: 4440
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:10 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: carolina skiff mod's

Post by Oyster » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:22 am

Consoles are easy. Take a look at the old style boston whalers. But for about four hundred bucks you can rig the boat for remote steering.
Scan this as they are production consoles. Over in the chrisfield area you have numerous crab boats with remote mounted helm units along side of the washboards that are basically built in fiberglass moulds.
I think Evans was over that way along with several fiberglass builders up around Cambridge too that may sell working consoles.

But building one out of wood is really simple. Actually for custom boats you can design one for the limited on deck beams in some of the dory style hulls.
http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product ... D=SHOPPING


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... &viewitem=

If you do not want to go the updated steering cables from Teleflex, Glen L sells pulley mechanisms.

https://www.boatdesigns.com/Small-Boat- ... oducts/29/

Complete rotary steering units costs very little, hookup and go.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... CHQQ8wIwBQ#

But anyway, from the appearance of your example on all of your posts, its apparent that you may have the ability to build all your components when you get over the small fear that always exists in the early stages of planning for the new boat builder. Please tell us what is shown in your taglines or signature portion of your posts. Any larger shots, full size and the likes of other work with wood?

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harpoonhedd
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Re: carolina skiff mod's

Post by harpoonhedd » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:41 pm

thanks for the links...I will spend tonight checking them all out...and you are right , its just a bit of fear etc...really if I can look at a drawing or photo I get relaxed real quick...

the pic in the signature is from a 21 ft fractional rig sloop I owned a few years ago...I sailed it primarily in Assawoman Bay and close in trips offshore...my friends said I took a pefrectly good boat and ruined it...LOL...but when you have a few hundred board feet of teak and mahogany...and the winter off...things happen...

its an open cockpit boat ...I wanted to spend the winter on it down in Bahia Honda...but ended up selling it to finance a new business deal...it was aperfect boat for diving and camping on......I think for every hour on the water I spent three working on this...gotta love it!

my new religion is to make a workboat that I just have to spray down every day...and not get upset if someone wears a pair of Nikes w/ dark sole's on board...LOL... :D I had a thirty dollar a week spray nine habit...

these are pics scanned before I owned a digital camera...so they are kind of less detailed...I took these with a throw away underwater job...

favorite spot here was on a port tack high and back...I single handed this boat 90% of the time...I added ballast so I could go out in a bit more wind...it had a swing keel...and could have been named "flipper" before I added about 300 lbs...

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ted...artist/woodworker
chincoteague island,virginia

http://harpoonheddgallery.shutterfly.com/

Oyster
Posts: 4440
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:10 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: carolina skiff mod's

Post by Oyster » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:41 pm

Thats a really neat rig, complimented with your workmanship. Thanks

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