Super Overniter

Questions about modifying a design

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gap998
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Super Overniter

Post by gap998 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:16 pm

Hi everyone,

This is my proposal for boat number 2 (or maybe boat number one!? ...). I have two concepts pictured below.

Although in the catalogue it says the Overniter can only be shortened, Owe Pedersen stretched his Overniter by 200mm to 16' 7" ( a little over 4%). I want to stretch mine by 10% to 17' 6" (this is the maximum size boat I can practicably build in my garage in it's current configuration. Can anyone tell me what the issues are with this? Is it structural, (Would it need an additional frame or thicker ply?), or would the dynamics of the hull be adversely affected?

In addition to the stretch, I propose to change the stepped sheer to a single one flowing down to a tumble-home rear similar to my concept for the Zip.

The second concept is more radical. In addition to the above mods I propose an Inboard design using a marinised Peugeot Turbo-diesel linked to a V-Drive to keep the weight as close to the outboard balance as possible. I have also flipped the Transom to 12º positive instead of negative (is this the right way round) keeping the same O/A length as the Outboard version (although WLL is increased).

Other than this I have tried to keep the business end of the hull as close to design as possible.
Super Overniter.jpg
Super Overniter Rr.jpg
Super Overniter SE.jpg
Gary

Planning a whole fleet, but starting with a Zip...I think.

"Just when you think you've made something idiot-proof, someone builds a better idiot!"

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gap998
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Re: Super Overniter

Post by gap998 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:20 pm

The last post would only let me add 3 photos so here are the pics of the Inboard version: -
Super Overniter Inboard.jpg
Super Overniter Inboard Rr.jpg
Super Overniter Inboard SE.jpg
Last edited by gap998 on Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gary

Planning a whole fleet, but starting with a Zip...I think.

"Just when you think you've made something idiot-proof, someone builds a better idiot!"

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gap998
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Re: Super Overniter

Post by gap998 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:29 pm

Some details of the Inboard arrangement: -
Super Overniter Inboard Ghost.jpg
I have used a ZF 45 IV transmission but the prop angle is a bit severe - With a little engine tilt I've got it down to 16º. I could improve on this by using a standard 'box & a seperate V-drive & jack-shaft but this would be more expensive.
Super Overniter Inboard GhostSE.jpg
You can see the birth layout in this plan view - I have included a portable head but I think this is wishful thinking even with my short Welsh stature!
Super Overniter Inboard GhostPLAN.jpg
Gary

Planning a whole fleet, but starting with a Zip...I think.

"Just when you think you've made something idiot-proof, someone builds a better idiot!"

hoodman
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Re: Super Overniter

Post by hoodman » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:05 pm

Nice renderings. Most of the designs can be lengthened by 10% without any consequence you'll just have to check with the design you want to use. As far as the other modifications I'm sure a lot of the other guys will be more helpful than I am.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

hoodman
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Re: Super Overniter

Post by hoodman » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:07 pm

Also, I think there is a Tahoe design that's around 17 feet if I'm not mistaken. That would put you in something that's an inboard design already and with the transom canted forward.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

hoodman
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Re: Super Overniter

Post by hoodman » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:14 pm

Sorry, the Tahoe is actually 19 feet. You might want to check out the Bonanza it's 17 feet inboard powered and I would think you can change the transom angle if you wanted. It's already got the tumble home in the design in the stern as well.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

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mrintense
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Re: Super Overniter

Post by mrintense » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:57 am

Gary,

I agree, nice renderings, however you might still want to consider the Tahoe or something similar rather than take the risk of major mods to the designs. Good luck with whatever route you choose.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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gap998
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Re: Super Overniter

Post by gap998 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:24 am

Thanks for the feedback guys,

I was thinking maybe I should shrink a Tahoe rather than stretch an Overniter, but the Tahoe doesn't have a cabin and although it is an inboard, it's mid-engined so I was worried the balance would be upset too much. I know a lot of outboard designs can be converted to I/O drive so I figured a V-drive would be pretty close, balance-wise.

I/O drive is another option as Lancing Marine in the UK do a stern drive set-up for an earlier version of the engine I I want to use & I understand the bell-housings are the same. This would mean I could leave the transom in its original position but it doesn't look as clean as the inboard design.
Super Overniter I-O.jpg
Gary

Planning a whole fleet, but starting with a Zip...I think.

"Just when you think you've made something idiot-proof, someone builds a better idiot!"

bob smith
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Re: Super Overniter

Post by bob smith » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:15 am

Looks nice in the drawings but I suspect the CG would be way aft. My quess is it would be a handling nightmare.
The v-drive may appear to help on the balance but you are adding weight and reducing hull (not a good combination).
CG is only one of many factors that contributes to a boats handling characteristics.
Bite the bullet and add on to the garage!
Bob Smith
Chester, SC

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gap998
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Re: Super Overniter

Post by gap998 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:30 am

I am INCREASING hull length Bob - from 15'11" on the standard OVERNITER Design to 17' 6". The Engine/Gearbox combo is only 10-15 Kg heavier than a 100hp Outboard which is considerably further back so my concern is actually that the weight might be too far FORWARD compared to the original outboard design.
Gary

Planning a whole fleet, but starting with a Zip...I think.

"Just when you think you've made something idiot-proof, someone builds a better idiot!"

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gap998
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Re: Super Overniter

Post by gap998 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:19 am

Standard ZF 45C mated to Casale 12º V-Drive via 13" Torque Tube gives a much better Shaft angle, better weight distribution & a level engine. Found a better Prop Model too. :)
Super Overniter Inboard Casale.jpg
Gary

Planning a whole fleet, but starting with a Zip...I think.

"Just when you think you've made something idiot-proof, someone builds a better idiot!"

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Gayle Brantuk
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Re: Super Overniter

Post by Gayle Brantuk » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:53 pm

Gary,

I did get your email and will answer here. The reason for not recommending that this design be lengthened is because of the raised deck. We keep in mind the beginning builder and this could present a challenge but it can be done. As for the inboard, it's not preferred due to balance issues as many have already stated. But, it may be okay as you've shown in your drawings with extra length. However, we recommend that you don't fix the location of the batteries or gas tank as they may need to be moved for balance. You are making changes that may affect performance...

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gap998
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Re: Super Overniter

Post by gap998 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:55 pm

Thanks so much for the reply Gayle,

This is what I love about Glen-L - These days It'd be so much easier for companies to wash their hands of lunatics like me and say "No - We've got over 300 designs! Just f*#@ing pick one & build it to plan!" :lol:

Seriously though, I now appreciate the complications of the raised deck for stretching, and the balancing act involved with the new layout. However, this is the just the answer I was hoping for - Possible - It won't collapse on itself, but It may handle like a dog - I guess I'll just have to build it and see - to paraphrase Jim Kelly "in the end it won't matter 'cos it'll be too busy lookin' good!" :)

Thanks for the feed-back; nice to know I'll have support in my folly :wink:
Gary

Planning a whole fleet, but starting with a Zip...I think.

"Just when you think you've made something idiot-proof, someone builds a better idiot!"

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Gayle Brantuk
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Re: Super Overniter

Post by Gayle Brantuk » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:16 am

Definitely keep us updated, Gary!

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gap998
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Re: Super Overniter

Post by gap998 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:39 pm

OK after the feedback & encouragement from everyone I've made a decision.

The sensible thing to do would be to skip the Zip & go straight to the outboard Overniter. I'll get a boat that will do 75% of what I want it to do, In just a couple or three years. The thing is... well a few things actually: -

I really like the Zip & want to see my version of it built.

I think my inboard Overniter concept looks so much better than the outboard concept. Even though I know an untried engine (motor) & drive line are going to be a world of hurt, I'm convinced I can get it to work and I love the idea of having something really individual. I've made a career out of solving difficult technical problems and this is a bit of a 'red rag' to me! However, this will take a lot of research, design & prototyping time both for the hull & engine, (designing a Jenko-style manifold with a turbo thrown into the mix!) Time I wont be spending on the water if this is my first boat.

So, I think I'm going to go with my original plan and build the Zip first; it's enough of a design challenge in itself, it'll teach me lots and give me time to get the mechanical solutions ready for the Overniter build.

Whether I ever get as far as the "Tahoe-rama" remains to be seen - maybe the Overniter will be big enough, or maybe I'll want to build a proper cruiser or a narrowboat - watch this space!

The next step goes something like this "Hey babe, OK with you if I spend 70 Quid on some boat plans!" (Glen-L is even better value in £s) & "Yes of course I'll finish the jobs around the house first" :lol:
Gary

Planning a whole fleet, but starting with a Zip...I think.

"Just when you think you've made something idiot-proof, someone builds a better idiot!"

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