Getting ideas down on paper

Questions about modifying a design

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Dave Grason
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Getting ideas down on paper

Postby Dave Grason » Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:41 pm

gap998 wrote:Dave,
...It is quite time consuming though so for a colour scheme I would go for just a 2D line sketch & colour it up.


I thought that you had a good idea. I'd just draw up what I had in my head and post the drawings up here. For me personally, I am a less is more sort of person because I firmly believe that ALL of Glen's designs were done by a PROFESSIONAL boat designer. SO, this means that guys like me, who are NOT pros, must be very careful not to mess up what is already beautiful. I think that people who are not in the business, really do not often understand the very fine balance between something that is pleasing to the eye and something that is out of balance.

Now, I need to say that I’ve been a pretty good artist when it comes to drawing some things. But I gotta tell you that, after this little design exercise, I can firmly say that boats are a real pain to draw!! OMG, my drawings have so many eraser marks on them that I can’t believe the paper is not worn through. However, for what it's worth, here are some of my ideas on paper. Please forgive my sloppy artwork. Honestly, I spent way more time on these than I would have ever thought. I'll explain each drawing as I go along.

The first one is of a Mist Miss. I have ALWAYS felt that this design is very underappreciated. There are just so few of them that have been built. It seems that an overwhelming number of new boat building enthusiasts gravitate towards other designs and completely fail to notice this inboard. And yet, I've always felt that the Malahini is so close as an outboard version. And the Malahini is VERY popular.

One of the design elements that I have always liked about this Mist Miss is the wooden framed windshield. The Mist Miss was the first set of plans I bought from Glen-L. I bought them from Barry over the phone along about 1984 before the internet was a common thing. The plans show the dimensions and curvatures for this windshield. Using a square grid to lay this shapes out on pattern paper, this windshield would not be nearly as difficult to build as many people think.
I’ve always wondered what the Mist Miss would look like as a sedan. So here is my idea of what I would do if I were building it this way. I just had to change that beautiful windshield because the side wings just didn’t look proper with my idea of a sedan top.
Attachments
Mist.jpg
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

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Dave Grason
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Re: Getting ideas down on paper

Postby Dave Grason » Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:42 pm

Next, I have always wondered why more people do not build the Bolero. To me this is another very underappreciated design. I have also always wondered if Glen was thinking of the Donzi when he did this one. The Donzi Sweet 16 has always been just one of the coolest boats on the water. (...in spite of it being a fiberglass design. yuk, :lol: ) So here is a quick sketch showing my reworking the Bolero deck just enough to capture the Donzi flavor. However, my idea is to have the topsides finished bright and paint the deck and paint below the waterline. This is just the opposite of what most boats that use a combination of paint and natural finish achieve. And THAT is exactly what got me to thinking about. But my drawing really isn’t showing it that way because my artistry is only amateurish at best. So the viewer will need to use a little imagination.
Another idea that I had was the way I drew the windshield. I’m sure that this has been done before but notice that I drew the windshield without a full metal frame. The metal part only goes around the bottom and in the front corners. The glass is left unframed at the top of the sides and across the front. If you’re familiar with the Donzi Sweet 16, you’ll know that it doesn’t even have a windshield. But to me, the Bolero is just too large of a boat not to have something there. So I think a cut down glass with only a partial frame would ROCK!!
Attachments
Bolero.jpg
Last edited by Dave Grason on Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

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Dave Grason
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Re: Getting ideas down on paper

Postby Dave Grason » Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:42 pm

Ok, my final design exercise for now is that of the Miss Chris. WHY, WHY, WHY, have not more people built this boat? It’s just SO beautiful with a stately elegance that cannot be easily matched even with professionally restored examples of yester year. But I changed it. I simply cannot stop from thinking about how it would look with a Dietrich top. The original Chris Crafts, from which this boat was designed, were plying American’s waters in the later twenties and early thirties and so, the Dietrich top just looks natural. I drew a three quarter view in an effort to see what it would like three dimensionally. OMG, I thought I was NEVER going to get curves on this drawing right! It almost drove me nuts.

I want to point out that, in my version, there is no front bow that joins the top to the windshield. The top that I have in my mind simply is a modification of a Bimini and is held in place by tension just like with a Bimini. I think that this would work but if it won't, maybe some one could chime in.
Attachments
MissChris02.jpg
MissChris01.jpg
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

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gap998
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Re: Getting ideas down on paper

Postby gap998 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:56 pm

Nice designs Dave - I think your being too hard on your penmanship!

Although I've been working with various CAD systems for the last 20 odd years, I started my career on a drawing board - as good as modern CAD is, you just don't get the charm & character of hand drawings - I love the comparative clutter & woolly lines of my Zip plans.

I love the sedan Mist Miss - looks like the top was always meant to be there!

Bolero would look great in a mix of Bright & 50/60s Euro pastel shades. Check out http://www.stustocker.com/ Donzi inspired Deep V barrel back build - could easily be done with a mod'ed Bolero.

I'm set on the Miss Chris for my retirement boat - we'll see. At the moment I'm enjoying the planning (or deluded dreaming :lol: )

So many designs, such little time - I watch vicariously with bated breath.
Gary

Planning a whole fleet, but starting with a Zip...I think.

"Just when you think you've made something idiot-proof, someone builds a better idiot!"

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mrintense
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Re: Getting ideas down on paper

Postby mrintense » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:12 pm

Nice designs Dave,

I too like to spend time thinking about changes to designs. I've made a few that I plan on incorporating to my Vera Cruise that I can't wait to see in reality. Seems like I am never going to get the hull flipped and start working on all those cool things topside!
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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Dave Grason
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Re: Getting ideas down on paper

Postby Dave Grason » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:51 pm

Ok. So my camera has had a dead battery for some time now because I lost the charging cord. Finally, I ordered a new cord and charged the camera up. NOW, I can take photos of my artwork and post them for you folks. This is my next artistic expression.

A few years ago, Bob Smith and i were bouncing the idea around to make a V-drive reproduction of a Chris Craft Riviera. Of course, the entire reason for this was that A, the CC Riv is just SUCH a gorgeous boat but B, it is a straight shaft inboard. If you study the CC Riv's lines, you suddenly realize that there is absolutely ZERO extra room between the front of the engine and the back of the rear seat. Plus, in order to make it fit, the Chris Craft's shaft angle is really quite radical. This means that there is a lot given up in the quest for style. But Bob reasoned that there might be a chance that one of Glen's V-drive boats could be restyled to honor the CC Riv design. I thought about it then and I agreed. There would be advantages. 1. You could get a honking V-8 in that puppy whereas a V8 would NEVER fit in something that is true to the original Chris Craft design. 2. There would be plenty of room and you wouldn't have to crowd the rear seat. 3. The boat would handle truckloads of torque and horsepower because it's still one of Glen's V-drive designs. 4. It could be faster than any CC Riv ever dreamed of being. Hey, what's not to love?

THEN?

Life got in the way.

So now, I've gotten out a piece of printer paper and my pencil and sharpie and sketched up a drawing that I think well shows the similarities and the differences between Glen's Dragster and Chris Craft's Riviera. Ya'll take a look and give me feedback.
Attachments
Drag2Riv.JPG
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

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Dave Grason
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Re: Getting ideas down on paper

Postby Dave Grason » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:56 pm

There are plenty of similarities. However, the differences are rather significant. To begin with, the helm on the Dragster would need to be moved forward by one complete frame member. That would work I think because the existing design's seating would become the new rear seat.

The stem would need to be completely reworked. The Dragster is designed for plywood. But to get the CC Riv look, I believe that the entire forward section of the hull would need to be cold-molded in order to accept the new stem.

Finally, to really get the Chris Craft flavor, I think that the transom would also need to have a fair curve while the Dragster's transom is flat. The boat below is the boat I used for reference for my drawing.

In a little while, I will try my hand at drawing the two boats from a bird's eye view. I want to see if I can figure any differences in beam. Obviously, I think that the beam on the Dragster must remain as designed. I only wonder if it is close enough to the CC Riv's hull design that it could be made to work. So - more drawings coming soon. Stay tuned.
Attachments
18-riviera-23f-006-9in.jpg
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

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psychobilly
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Re: Getting ideas down on paper

Postby psychobilly » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:54 am

I like it buddy! Much too nice!

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Dave Grason
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Re: Getting ideas down on paper

Postby Dave Grason » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:55 pm

Thank you for the kind words.

I spent some time figuring what these boats would like as viewed from above. It is really difficult to know just how close the specifications are between the two boats. They are BOTH 18 feet but beyond that, I'm taking educated guesses using a little ruler and the photographs. But near as I can figure, the CC is just a touch narrower than the Glen. This makes sense since the Glen is designed to carry some 1100 lbs in her stern. That's way more than the CC. Other than that, however, they are strikingly similar.
Attachments
Drag2Riv02.JPG
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

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Dave Grason
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Re: Getting ideas down on paper

Postby Dave Grason » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:03 pm

As I was finishing up the above drawing, I suddenly wondered what the Glen-L Dragster would look like if the builder simply moved the helm forward one frame and then built an engine cover that took its styling cues from the CC. So here are two more illustrations showing the Dragster with just those modifications. Personally, I think that this boat would be very easy to build - certainly far easier to build than trying to convert the boat into a CC replica. Tell me what you think.
Attachments
Drag2Riv04.JPG
Drag2Riv03.JPG
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.


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