TrueGrit/CC Walkaround

Questions about modifying a design

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curtgard
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Re: TrueGrit/CC Walkaround

Postby curtgard » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:26 pm

The windshields are tinted safety glass. Sorry, I didn't make myself clear on the 6 degree cabin figure. The cabin sides are tilted inward about 3 degrees. This is per the plans. This is shown in detail in the plans. Since you are going to have a walk around deck, I assume the cabin side walls will be attached to the floor. The walkway then will be at the same level as the cockpit floor with steps up at some point at the bow? It will be a lot easier to make straight walls in that layout. The 6 degree is on the cabin side ends near the rear cabin bulkhead going vertical. You do have the issue with more water runoff going into the cockpit with the walk around at cockpit level but the cockpit is self draining if balance is maintained. But as shown in your one picture with just wider side decks, I think you will still need to hold onto the cabin roof as you walk forward so fishing might not be so easy.

Curt

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JoeM
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Re: TrueGrit/CC Walkaround

Postby JoeM » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:42 pm

Bill Edmundson wrote:Joe

Many of us stay around after our builds for the pleasure it brings us to help others.

Bill


It's a relief to have people to talk about all this to and ask questions of those that have experience in building a boat. My wife, while supportive, could really care less about the process. :) I'm pretty sure that's why she encouraged me to go ahead and purchase the plans so I would be working on this 3d build for a while and stop bugging her about various boat building subjects. Back fired a little I think, now i'm still talking to her about all the boat building subjects AND now i'm also talking about and showing her my 3D design :lol: This is probably why my posts are always a book...

Bill Edmundson wrote:Joe,

It's a Yanmar 125 turbo diesel. I have a rectangular tank, 26 gal. The fuel gage is worthless. I measure with a dip stick. Stick says, right at 1/4 tank. I know that sounds ridicules. that includes idle speed up to 38 mph.

However, unless you run a lot, it is hard to justify the extra cost of a diesel with fuel cost. Then there is a safety issue.

Bill


Thanks for the info. Doesn't sound ridiculous to me, just impressive.

I think i'll be on the cusp of diesel being the better option as far as usage goes but not enough to where it will be a mandatory thing. I would honestly prefer it and if possible will go that route. Ultimately it will depend on bank balance at the time of purchase and what I can convince my wife of.

curtgard wrote:The windshields are tinted safety glass. Sorry, I didn't make myself clear on the 6 degree cabin figure. The cabin sides are tilted inward about 3 degrees. This is per the plans. This is shown in detail in the plans. Since you are going to have a walk around deck, I assume the cabin side walls will be attached to the floor. The walkway then will be at the same level as the cockpit floor with steps up at some point at the bow? It will be a lot easier to make straight walls in that layout. The 6 degree is on the cabin side ends near the rear cabin bulkhead going vertical. You do have the issue with more water runoff going into the cockpit with the walk around at cockpit level but the cockpit is self draining if balance is maintained. But as shown in your one picture with just wider side decks, I think you will still need to hold onto the cabin roof as you walk forward so fishing might not be so easy.

Curt


Ah. That makes it a little more clear as I was looking at the plans and noticed the 3degree cant to the carlin but didn't see a 6 degree angle. Which I neglected to do since I was continuing the side deck angle, and I mistakenly said was 14 degree and what I actually meant was 9 degree. Was thinking of the side deck/walkway space between railing posts and cabin side.


As far as cabin attachment, I essentially made a second carlin and added braces at the frames similar to how the actual carlin is attached to the frame side. So the cabin sides are attached to the walkaround/side deck. With this design I shouldn't have issue with much water running down the sidedeck to the cockpit. My original thoughts was to make the walkaround level with the cockpit as much as possible with steps up to the bow on the sides of the cabin to preserve cockpit space. After considering what everyones advice in regards to my original plans/pics I posted in the original post, I changed my design to where the walk around is one level all the way around with steps from the cockpit itself. After modeling that I found that I liked it better visually and it also increased my storage space in the cabin and on the side deck itself while retaining a great area that is dry and accessible to run wiring. And while I lost a little cockpit space due to the steps it wasn't too much.The steps are roughly 10"x10". I'm also planning on rails at 30" so if fighting a fish around the walkaround deck you can brace with your thighs to maintain balance. The rails aren't final design yet. I'm playing with skinning the outside like the hull with scupper holes to drain water. A few other ideas are bouncing around in my head about the rails and other design ideas that I haven't fully fleshed out yet as well.

The balance I think has been largely solved with my current tank set up. I ran the numbers and without taking the extra framing, posts/rails, and cabinetry in the berth into account the CB moved aft a little under 3 inches. And most of that extra weight that I didn't account for yet is forward of the CB. I'm not sure how to figure the actual displacement of my design but I ran the numbers with the stock design and the Moment weight to raise/lower trim 1 Inch is about 450pounds. With less than 10 25 ballast bags I should be able to correct the trim for a more efficient ride. One of the ideas that is bouncing around in my head is having a few areas built into the boat that will secure ballast bags. Like one in the bow area 10 ft forward of CB, one in the stern 10 ft astern of CB and two right at the CB area on the sides. All sitting as low in the hull as possible. Keep the bags stored in the "saddle" areas and move one bag from each side to the bow or stern area. With each set moved forward/aft that would almost trim bow/stern by 1 inch. This is not a major consideration for me just an option should it be needed.
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3dbuild27fttransomtobow.jpg
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kens
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Re: TrueGrit/CC Walkaround

Postby kens » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:44 pm

I built my boat with the expected install of a cummins 4bt3.9T diesel turbo.
That is, I put in the water intake, exhaust, motor stringers, that Cummins would have wanted to see in order to activate their diesel warranty on a new purchase.
i did launch with a 3.0L gas engine inside the motor stringers, and sucking the diesel water intake, and blowing out the diesel transom exhaust port. With that said, I could not justify the expense of the diesel new purchase, over the gas engine 'already on hand'. and that was 10 years ago.
the same math still applies.
You would have to be a type of guy that peruses the circumnavigation of the oceans to justify the diesel purchase.
Oak is over rated, everything about it takes extra time; then it warps, splits or checks !!! :roll:

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JoeM
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Re: TrueGrit/CC Walkaround

Postby JoeM » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:44 pm

kens wrote:I built my boat with the expected install of a cummins 4bt3.9T diesel turbo.
That is, I put in the water intake, exhaust, motor stringers, that Cummins would have wanted to see in order to activate their diesel warranty on a new purchase.
i did launch with a 3.0L gas engine inside the motor stringers, and sucking the diesel water intake, and blowing out the diesel transom exhaust port. With that said, I could not justify the expense of the diesel new purchase, over the gas engine 'already on hand'. and that was 10 years ago.
the same math still applies.
You would have to be a type of guy that peruses the circumnavigation of the oceans to justify the diesel purchase.


I'm that guy. Don't have the health of finances for it though but I can dream :D

Kind of a good thing my health isn't up for that kind of cruising, my wife wouldn't do that unless it's a BIG boat. We saw the type in San Diego Harbor when we did a Warrior Sailing day sail on a 48' Leopard Catamaran. It was easily a 100ft+ mega yacht. Pretty much anything less and I'd have to fly her around port to port. Though she did like the setup of the Leopard Catamaran.
WSP Family Sail Day 63.jpg
WSP Family Sail Day 62.jpg
20171028_143854.jpg


Perhaps later on, after I build the true grit, I'll build a sailboat that would be capable of world cruising.

But for now the True Grit will be for taking me and others out for overnight or two day fishing trips the majority of the time, maybe 40-50 days a year if i'm lucky. My aforementioned health issues will also likely prevent me from running it enough days a year to justify a diesel.

But the reliability, efficiency, and safety factors are still making me want one. Who knows, by the time i'm ready to put in the engine in my True Grit gas, diesel, or both may be outlawed and my choice could be made for me.
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JoeM
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Re: TrueGrit/CC Walkaround

Postby JoeM » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:28 pm

Found out I shorted myself 6 inches on the berth top and cabin height overall. Corrected for that. I still don't really have the room for bunk beds but I have most of my anchor locker above deck and found that I have about 6 feet in the v berth so I still have place for 2 people in the berth area without having to convert the seating to bed in the salon. I decided not to raise the deck itself to minimize the steps while walking around.
3dbuild27ftsteppedcabinpic5.jpg


I added cushions throughout to get a more accurate view of heights.

I added two sliding sun roof hatches above the pilothouse seats. I will likely add one or two more throughout the cabin to enhance ventilation as I'm not sure which, if any, of my windows will be able to be opened. And while I do have plans for air conditioning eventually, that will be pretty much the LAST thing to go in, likely years after launching the boat.

3dbuild27ftsteppedcabinpic7.jpg


A small change is the change in color. Yes it's early to think about but what can I say, i'm trying to be thorough in my planning. My wife and I are kind of big nerds, and we like a show called Dr. Who. I was hoping to paint the exterior a shade of blue like the character's "vehicle". However that is a darker shade than I think I can get away with(similar to the shade I had on my earlier models). Just sitting at my house the exterior could be subjected to indirect temperatures over 110 and I don't want to think about how much more heat the darker color will absorb. The deck and pilothouse were always going to be a shade of white so I wasn't concerned there. But a dark blue would likely absorb too much heat, even with a cover over most of the boat. For that reason i'm thinking of going with more of a steel blue color. Of course that also depends on what colors I can get depending on the paint I use.
3dbuild27ftsteppedcabinpic6.jpg
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JoeM
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Re: TrueGrit/CC Walkaround

Postby JoeM » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:14 pm

I think i'm beginning to get to a point where i'm as far in the basic design as I can get without doing mockups to try out in person. I'll wait for more reading/research before I plan out the plumbing and electrical.

I was busy installing doors on all the openings and decided that I wanted the door for the head to perform double duty and close off the berth as well. There are swing down/up sections that close off the top portion. I hope these pics illustrate my design well enough.

I did have to add a step-up into the pilot-house after I raised the roof and everything once I noticed my slip-up in height.
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Re: TrueGrit/CC Walkaround

Postby JoeM » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:18 pm

I added a larger hatch in the salon area and have a ladder from the inside so I can access the roof. The ladder can fold up into the ceiling.
3dbuild27ftsteppedcabinpic14.jpg
3dbuild27ftsteppedcabinpic20.jpg


I think this is pretty much what the boat is going to look like.
3dbuild27ftsteppedcabinPIC19.jpg
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Bill Edmundson
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Re: TrueGrit/CC Walkaround

Postby Bill Edmundson » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:27 pm

Joe

She's looking great. I know much will evolve during the build. But, thinking ahead is never a waste.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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JoeM
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Re: TrueGrit/CC Walkaround

Postby JoeM » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:16 pm

Thanks for the compliment Bill! I finished reading through your Bartender build, and that is impressive and mildly daunting! Nice detailed reports and accompanying pictures that I felt like I was building it along with you. I had taken a step back from planning out my own berthing arrangements and while reading through your build I got to the part where you showed your V Berth and I realized that I probably had enough room in my v berth setup that I didn't need the bunk bed arrangement I was thinking about. So not only did I get to participate in an incredible build, albeit after the fact, I also was able to "solve" a problem with my own setup. Many thanks!

Trying to begin figuring out my next steps now that I think my proof of concept design is acceptable. So many things that I could focus on now it's almost hard to know where to begin.

Ideally, I will slowly begin acquiring wood after the start of the year and begin turning wood into a boat. I should be able to complete my frames and encapsulate them in my garage shop with no problem in regards to space.

I already have an ample amount area of my back/side yard in mind for where I want to construct the building forms and complete the build. I don't have anywhere near enough room in my garage/shop for anything close to this size of boat so I'm tossing around ideas on a structure to build under/in. Ideally, I would have a steel building put up that is minimum 34'Lx18'Wx16'H with a full slab floor/foundation (very envious of Roberta's shop/aircraft hangar, I mean really a HANGAR!!! If only...). That is costly and waiting to begin the boat for this to happen would mean a delay of years, so for now this is just planned for a shop area and storage of boat and truck camper after the fact unless I find a load of money soon. At minimum I will just have the forms set in concrete in the open and cover with tarps as I will be encapsulating as I go as much as I can. I can add a temporary tent structure when I start glassing the hull and painting. The temporary carport/garages aren't that cheap either but I don't have as many building codes to comply with which adds to the expense.

I was thinking of making some mock-ups of spaces with some spare OSB, 2x4's, and plywood I have on hand. But without a hull to place the mock-ups in I don't think I'd get any better idea than the 3d model. So I think i'll wait until the hull is made before I revisit making mockups. Besides, as Bill said,much will evolve during the build. No sense getting bogged down into too fine of details or waste materials/effort that is better focused elsewhere.

I am almost ready to release my web/blog page that has my plans/ideas in much more detail. I still have alot of editing to go before i'm ready though. Will put it in my tag/signature line when it's ready.
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Bill Edmundson
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Re: TrueGrit/CC Walkaround

Postby Bill Edmundson » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:47 pm

Joe

Thank you. This why we want everyone to post pictures and document their builds. There are two bonuses. First, you help others. Second, down the road, you can go back and see what you did. It's a real help. My memory just ain't what it used to be.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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JoeM
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Re: TrueGrit/CC Walkaround

Postby JoeM » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:45 pm

I've been messing around on sketchup, creating a 3D walkthrough animation. It's not complete but I couldn't help but release it to get some feedback. https://youtu.be/FvVrKQk0DHA
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DrBryanJ
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Re: TrueGrit/CC Walkaround

Postby DrBryanJ » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:56 am

Joe: Just watched your walk-thru. Looks really good to me. Looks like you're ready to start building. What changes do you think you need to make?
Bryan

Building a malahini "Mona Lisa"

My wife said "If I build a boat, she's getting a divorce."

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JoeM
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Re: TrueGrit/CC Walkaround

Postby JoeM » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:55 am

Thanks Bryan!

I appreciate the feedback. I also think i'm ready to start building. Hoping to begin layout table soon and frames shortly after.

As far as changes, the boat itself is pretty much complete as is. The walkthrough animation needs to be tweaked to not be as jerky. But i'm just beginning to learn how so i'm giving myself time.

Happy New Years!
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watkibe
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Re: TrueGrit/CC Walkaround

Postby watkibe » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:26 pm

There are plans available to build sturdy but inexpensive boat building shelters. I think they were designed by a boat designer. Basically they consist of arched trusses built from small (1x2 ? 2x2?) dimensioned lumber with a plastic cover.
I think I saw the plans in the back of Wooden Boat magazine. Sorry the info is so sketchy. I'll look into it further if you are interested.
Bruce
From the Great Pacific Northwest !

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JoeM
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Re: TrueGrit/CC Walkaround

Postby JoeM » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:10 am

Thanks Bruce!

I like seeing plans and ideas that others have come up with. So if you can find it without too much trouble it would be nice to look at. I'm not sure if I'd be able to use the plans though, but perhaps someone else could.

Being in California the requirements for zoning and permitting are my main issue in putting up the shop/storage space, behind the money of course. Anything over ~100sqft will need to be permitted and up to code. I don't have acreage(I do have almost 1/3 acre, so plenty of room) so any building will be easily visible to neighbors and authorities so no hope of "hiding" it for 8+years. I thought about doing a temporary tent structure but thought having it up for 8+years was pushing the definition of "temporary" and would set myself up for a battle with the city.

My wife and I are talking about doing a VersaTube steel structure ourselves in the next year or two. It's almost like a giant erector set.
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