Torn between plans.

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RobC
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:38 pm
Location: Caledonia, Ms

Torn between plans.

Post by RobC » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:42 am

Hey everyone, I have been reading, researching and trying to decide which boat to build for weeks now. I had originally thought to build the Amigo, but realistically a 22ft sailboat would be very cramped for my family I think. I already know whatever boat I decide will take me and my crew between 1-2 years and by then my daughters will be 13, 12, and 10. I'm a fairly large guy (6'0) and at least my oldest daughter is built like me, at 11 she is 5'2 and showing no signs of slowing down. Plans are for a boat we can "camp", without spending 2 days in each others armpits, in the local lake/river at least 2 weekends a month and for the occasional long weekend trailering it to the coast (about 5hrs) and sail the gulf for a few days.

My other choices I have been looking at are the Glen-L 25 and the James Cook. I am leaning towards the James Cook more, one for the increased size and also for the built in plans for a small inboard. I know its more of a boat to build, but I think it would be worth it for the size and comfort.

My tow set up would consist of a dual axle trailer, one axle having hydraulic brakes(already have the stuff collected to put brakes on a trailer axle), and my 88 4runner I am almost finished with. Its "slightly" modified, equipped with a 98 3.4 engine, 5sp manual, improved brakes all the way around with 4.88 gears and chevy spring swap done. Its more than a 1/2 ton but not quite a 3/4, maybe a 5/8 ton pickup, I've towed approximately 9500 lbs with a slightly lesser set up so the 20 min ride to the local Flying J on the water and the occasional trip to the coast I am pretty confident I could pull the James Cook.

I guess I am just looking for your all opinion on this. I know this will be a challenge, but then again I am raising three daughters so I think this will be small potatoes compared to raising them. :mrgreen:
If you can't fix it with duct tape, bailing wire or a hammer what you have is an electrical problem.

Rob Myran
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:47 am
Location: Viroqua, Wisconsin

Re: Torn between plans.

Post by Rob Myran » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:50 pm

Some things to consider.

Is you family all into sailing now?
How will you primarily sail the boat = long trips, day sailing and weekend stays?.
These may determine the size and which boat you will want to build. For example, if most of your family turns out not to be too into sailing, you could end up with more boat than you need. An important thing after all the time and effort to build a boat.
If where you live you use your boat mostly to day sail and weekend, you might use a smaller boat and charter a big boat for occasional full family vacations. Also, remember you can always set up a boom tent over the cockpit for people to sleep outside the cabin on weekend trips

The James Cook is a pretty large boat. If all your family is into sailing they should be able to all fit aboard with reasonable amount of gear and clothes. But, for some people, being on a 45 foot boat would make people think they are in each other's armpits.

Big "trailerable" boats usually don't get trailered often. They are mostly transported once or twice a season to and from a lake and maybe for a vacation trip. Part of the reason is it is a reasonably large amount of work to setup, launch and retrieve.

What type of waters will you sail on? Your mention of the Amigo and the James Cook (both boats I am considering building one or the other of, myself) indicates large bodies of water with some likely offshore sailing. The waters will also influence how tough a boat you need. You mention a local lake and river. Depth of keel may be a consideration for the river.
Another fine mess I've gotten myself into!

RobC
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:38 pm
Location: Caledonia, Ms

Re: Torn between plans.

Post by RobC » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:39 pm

Well the family has never been on a sailboat before but do love being on the water. I'm the only one in the family that has ever sailed before, and it's been awhile since I have been on a sailboat. I have spent a good bit of time on the water since, but not with wind power. I think the biggest boat they have been on was a friends 21' Bayliner,

The water I would be sailing on the most is the Tenn-Tom waterway and Columbus Lake(part of the waterway), so draft wouldn't come into play unless I wanted to go into some of the tributaries(and they have quite a few big reptiles in those so I don't like going into those places for the most part). Now on some longer weekends, or even the occasion 2 week vacation, I really would love to take the boat and sail around on the gulf coast (if I get really brave quite possibly the Bahamas one day :mrgreen: ).

I understand that set up and break down could easily take 1-2 hours so just going out day sailing would be a waste, but worth it for a full weekend on the water.

I was just worried about space on the Amigo (for a family of 5 at least), earlier today I took some rope and tried to lay it out as close to the length and beam of the Amigo and the James Cook as I could. I just don't see us being able to cram all 5 of us in the Amigo (I pictured the Waltons camping in a VW van :lol: ) and it be pleasurable, I want the family to enjoy this as much as I used to.

I guess ultimately that is my main concern, I want them to enjoy it. I would go through whatever set up is required to bring the love of sailing to them.

If my wife enjoys this as much as I hope (crosses fingers!!) my plan is to build a bigger cruiser and live aboard once the kids hit college. That would make them harder for them to choose a career like my step son of being a human boomerang, no matter how hard I throw him out into the big world he keeps coming back 8) . (that for the most part is a joke, well for the most part lol )
If you can't fix it with duct tape, bailing wire or a hammer what you have is an electrical problem.

Oyster
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Location: North Carolina

Re: Torn between plans.

Post by Oyster » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:31 am

Well the family has never been on a sailboat before but do love being on the water. I'm the only one in the family that has ever sailed before, and it's been awhile since I have been on a sailboat. I have spent a good bit of time on the water since, but not with wind power. I think the biggest boat they have been on was a friends 21' Bayliner,

First off I strongly recommend that you find a good used fiberglass sailboat, fully rigged which can be had these days for peanuts. Find one with a centerboard and tabernacle rigged mast if at all possible. They are all over the place nowadays. This will get you on the water and can get some of the rusty kinks out of your extended time frame from being on the water. This will also give you some idea of what the lady thinks too. I would also look around for a sailing club too. There are sailing operations like
http://www.sailtime.com/
for a yearly fee that will also get you out there with others. I bet there are always someone looking for railmeat. :wink:
Without a partner into such addictions, you may end up attempting to go on your on and thats quite possibly impossible and surely no fun after all the work involved for a custom sailboat build.

Launching also somes into play with sailboat, rigging time frame at ramps where power boats also inhabit. Starting large with children still at home and not knowing how the art and sport of sailing may go over, start slowly and cheaply, even building a day sailor. The Glen L 15 is really a great boat with plenty of room too, for a starter boat, high sided and moderate speeds too. This also will give you some building experiences and will also get you on the water quickly too.

With a donor type boat too purchased cheaply, you can also use some of the hardware off of the boat too if you play your cards right when building a moderate size custom hull. You will find that rigging alone will be an added expense that gives you some sticker shock. So we sometimes go the route of scrounging from older ones too after we finish building a medium size boat.

Sure you can go the route of keeping any boat in the water too. But without knowing the whole story of your particular setup and region, few can give you much feedback and recommend offshore boats for your wants too.
Plans are for a boat we can "camp", without spending 2 days in each others armpits, in the local lake/river at least 2 weekends a month and for the occasional long weekend trailering it to the coast (about 5hrs) and sail the gulf for a few days.
Next look at this plan. This is the Fancy Free. The Amigo is really a heavy duty boat. This boat may not be the biggest, but its a boat for the coastal waters of the gulf coast for sure.

https://www.boatdesigns.com/21-Fancy-Fr ... ducts/436/

Image
As far as kids on sailboats, especially small kids or even teenagers, these days their attention span is lacking for being already where you want to be when on a sailboat and thats on the water, instead of heading where you want to be on power boats.

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Torn between plans.

Post by Bill Edmundson » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:22 am

Robc

I have a 27 ft Hunter 1983 that I'll sell fro $5000. It will get you on the water NOW.

It can then be a donar boat for your build. It's in Gulf Shores AL.

3000# lead
mast/boom/rigging/sails
8 hp Yanmar Diesel
Head
2 sinks
water pump
VHF
Pedestal steering

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

Rob Myran
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:47 am
Location: Viroqua, Wisconsin

Re: Torn between plans.

Post by Rob Myran » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:18 am

You have a lot to consider. My very first suggestion is to get everyone on a boat. Get someone to take you out on theirs, do a tourist day sail, do a captained charter. It does not matter what or what boat type or size. What you want to find out is if the squeal-o-meter goes off and your wife or kids hate it.. It is also a good thing to get experiences sailing where you are not the one in control and scaring the wife and kids when a big puff hits your boat and you are not used to it and the boat tips way over and rounds up.

Second, if they like the idea moderately to enthusiastically, have both your wife and yourself take a sailing course. Maybe at different times or on different boats so that relationship issues or tendencies for one to depend on the other don't become a problem.

Some suggestions about buying a cheap boat to learn on may be good for you, too. I would start with a small boat because you really learn how to handle a boat on a small one. Even one that can tip over and get you wet like a sunfish ( which would become the kids boat as they get into it.) There is a "rule" about sailing: Small boats get used and large boats sit. That is because large boats take more time to get underway, may need crew that is not available, and often because the guy who bought it is at work to make the money to make the boat payments. So it is not a bad philosophy to get the smallest boat that fits your needs. You can always buy a bigger boat when your needs change. Your problem is you don't have enough experience (yourself or your family) to know what will be that boat. Since you want to build a boat, you really want to make a good decision on the best design for your needs and desires before you get into the time of building. But don't forget there is an aspect of romance and fantasy in owning boats that is as important as the size and use it will be put to. That is why there are so many types and sizes of boats out there.

Boat building is a thing all its own. There is great satisfaction in building a boat. There is also frustration and set backs and struggles, but you learn so much and you also end up with a boat you know intimately and can fix anything that breaks.

I started with a Precision 21. It turned out my wife is seasick, scared and bored. I turned out to be a solo sailor much of the time. I would have bought a Precision 18 is I had known that in advance. It would have been right for the lakes and river around here. That got me thinking about building a boat. I chose the Minuet (over the Tango) because it would be a nice little boat to hook up and go. I can set it up easily myself and it will be launchable on shallow ramps because of the retracting centerboard. I am planning to build a bigger boat (economy permitting) to replace the P-21. I want a boat to be able to sail safely and comfortably for extended cruises on Lake Superior and coastally. I also want to keep it trailerable. That is why I am looking at the Amigo and the James Cook. For my needs the Amigo will likely be the best choice.

Hope this all helps.
Another fine mess I've gotten myself into!

RobC
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:38 pm
Location: Caledonia, Ms

Re: Torn between plans.

Post by RobC » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:25 am

Thanks all for the info, there is only so much info I can get from pictures. I appreciate all the feedback.

Taking lessons around here is out of the question, without driving who knows how far, there isn't any interest around here for sailing. The local Marina has either BIG yachts or fishing/ski boats, both with big money. Storing there is not much of an option, unless things have changed drastically, security after hours is non existent. A friend used to have an older motor cruiser he kept there, but after several instances of him finding used condoms and trash on his boat (most likely teens doing you know what) he moved it to another marina (about 1.5 hrs away). I took some lessons when stationed in Great Mistakes, and did take a 14 or 16' boat out solo several times(but that was back in '92). Its just I don't know anyone locally that has or even has an interest in sailing, even most of the fishing boats I've been on they would rather go fast than fish...

Bill I really appreciate the offer, but I am not spending any money on this till after the new year. My primary concern right now is to pay the house off early next year, then I will start on this. If the boat is still available then I will be definitely be interested. After finding out 6 years ago, when I bought my house, what being debt free(almost couldn't get the loan if not for a big downpayment) does to your credit score, I vowed to never buy on credit again. I also am CHEAP lol, instead of making a car payment I usually buy junkers and spend 1.5-2k and redo what needs to be done and then have a vehicle that drives like new for 1/20th what a new one costs. While some people don't understand why I live this way, I ultimately would like to retire before I am 80 years old lol.

I do know my family likes boating, none have yet to get seasick on the power fish or ski boats they have been on. They all are intrigued about the sailing aspect, heck my kids keep telling me to buy the plans for the boat on Captain Ron (they love and watch it at least once a month).... Kids ya got to love them lol.

I also don't get to spend a whole lot of time with the kids, I work night's and usually only see them on weekends unless they aren't in school( I try to make every moment count, and the build I think would give them some great memories with dear old Dad). On my motorcycle restoration ( old junkers remember :mrgreen: ) any time I am out there on the weekend I have had 3 little shadows right there with me (think I have only done about 1/5 of the work on it so far), I am positive they will be right there with me. My oldest two have already had strong words with each other over what color they want to paint the boat, I am trying to keep them involved with picking the plans out as well. Whatever we decide to build will be their boat as much as it is mine, at least that is what I am hoping.

Sorry for the long and rambling post, just trying to give as much info as possible.
If you can't fix it with duct tape, bailing wire or a hammer what you have is an electrical problem.

upspirate

Re: Torn between plans.

Post by upspirate » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:36 am

I too love the debt free & pay the house off theme.

I also like the small Glen-L 15 route to sailing.

There are places out there where you and your wife can take a small extended w/e or week and learn to sail....getting her onboard would be the best and first step.

I am a competent sailor,but I can't teach....I found that having them take sailing lessons worked better for me(two past wifes....no the sailing wasn't a factor!! :wink: )

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Torn between plans.

Post by Bill Edmundson » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:22 pm

I've heard good reports on Lanier Sailing in Pensacola. They have courses at all levels and size range.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

RobC
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:38 pm
Location: Caledonia, Ms

Re: Torn between plans.

Post by RobC » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:59 am

Well ok I might just spend some money on this before the house is over with after all. Been doing a lot of web research looking at different things. I found a guy a couple hours away that bought a set of plans for a 18' Cat and he has bought a bit over half of the materials (at least all of the lumber it requires or so he says). His wife finally gave him the ultimatum and hes having to sell it all for CHEAP.... I'm not sure who's plans it is yet, he said he will let me know when he digs in and finds the name of the company.

I know I said I wouldn't spend any cash for this yet, but don't think I can pass all of this for a couple hundred bucks..
If you can't fix it with duct tape, bailing wire or a hammer what you have is an electrical problem.

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Stuart
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Re: Torn between plans.

Post by Stuart » Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:12 pm

It depends what kind of lumber is it. If its good marine wood you could look it over, make a few cuts, put a few things together and decide to sell it again or complete it. Good marine wood is expensive. I have put in over $10000 in my 25ft build. A cat boat is nice.

Stuart

RobC
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:38 pm
Location: Caledonia, Ms

Re: Torn between plans.

Post by RobC » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:55 pm

Ok just talked to the guy again its a Hartley 18 Fast Twin. There was some miss communication he has half the lumber and it is marine ply.

Next weekend if work allows maybe I will be headed to check and very possibly buy it.

With the advice I have received I have adjusted my plans some, built this cat and relearn to sail and its big enough to get the family out on it. If they really enjoy it next will buy a usuable "donor" and start sailing some more, and if its still fun for them start building a bigger boat that will reside in the water. That way if I can retire when I want to, my wife and I can live aboard while we can enjoy it and enjoy being on the water the whole time.

Thanks again all for your feedback.

I know the cat isn't a Glen-L but I hope you guys don't mind if I stick around anyway. It just seems there is too much valuable knowledge to pass up here. :)
If you can't fix it with duct tape, bailing wire or a hammer what you have is an electrical problem.

Oyster
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Location: North Carolina

Re: Torn between plans.

Post by Oyster » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:34 pm

know the cat isn't a Glen-L but I hope you guys don't mind if I stick around anyway. It just seems there is too much valuable knowledge to pass up here.
LOL! This place is not a good place to hang out if you are afraid of aquiring any addictions. If you hang around here just a tiny bit longer, you will find that just about every single person actively posting here owns more than one boat with numerous different labels on them. so don't think that if you do not own a glen l boat that you are free and clear from numerous pitfalls that we find ourselves in these days.

You must be aware of a few things though that may happen in the process of hanging out in this joint. You must be the type of fellow that will also build a small boat for your kids when asked :wink: as a result of seeing some of the diverse sets of plans for kids boats and photos that kids themselves own and enjoy along with their parents. For starters have a look at the kid members that also hang out here. Others may also provide their evidence too. 8)

Image

Image

Image

:lol: 8)

RobC
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:38 pm
Location: Caledonia, Ms

Re: Torn between plans.

Post by RobC » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:32 am

LOL Oyster, I was addicted to sailing when I got on my first sailboat. It was just life kept getting in the way for me to get back into it. I had never even thought about building one, until I came across an article about a month ago.

My wife is already afraid of what this might entail. She has already given up trying to get oil/grease stains, FG resin etc. out of my clothes(her fault for marrying a mechanic lol), now shes fussing that I'm going to get all the girls involved in this... Guess I have to get them some hand me down work clothes lol. I can't even describe to you the looks she gives me as all 3 girls pile on top of me for the countless hours we look at plans, boats for sale, and sailing vid's on youtube...

As it looks my oldest (11YO) is going to be my 1st mate. I bought a couple sailing introductory books this weekend to refresh up on, and I have to steal them back from her when I want to read them. :mrgreen: I also rented some videos to show the family what it would be like, and Caity (the 11yo) has watched it about 6 times this weekend, and was taking notes....

All in all I hope this will be an enjoyable experience for everyone, even my wife :lol: .
If you can't fix it with duct tape, bailing wire or a hammer what you have is an electrical problem.

upspirate

Re: Torn between plans.

Post by upspirate » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:37 am

This is a great magazine depicting the cruising life/lifestyle:

http://halesbarmarina.com/photos/galler ... MG0519.JPG

I've subscribed to the analog magazine for years...great people and fun.

Whether round the world, local cruising or daysailing!

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