Minuet Musings

Dinghies, day sailers, world cruisers. Many small sailboats make ideal rowboats or low-speed power boats.

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tpelle
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:34 am
Location: Northern Kentucky along Ohio River

Minuet Musings

Post by tpelle » Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:05 pm

FWIW, here's a rendition in MSPaint (with apologies to Glen-L) of what I have in mind for Minuet. The cabin profile is changed, to move the rear cabin bulkhead aft to encompass the "standard" bridge deck, and the forward bulkhead moved back to just aft of the mast step. I have in mind continuing the line of the cabin sides forward to form a pair of coamings on both sides of the mast forward, and incorporating a foredeck hatch into the coamings. The main use of the additional cabin space aft would be to allow for a modest permanent galley with maybe a sea-swing type single burner stove, and maybe a cabinet on the other side to conceal a porta-potty or "Humanure" composting-bucket toilet. I also think I would like to extend the cabin sides out to the sheer - kind of a raised-deck, if you will a la the Tideway 14 - to gain more interior space and permit leaning back against the hull sides while seated on the aft end of the berths. I would build the v-berth as two single berths with a narrow v-shaped cabin sole between the heads of the berths to make a little bit more cabin sole. The cabin side windows would either be fixed, or perhaps could be built as "wiley ports" - but the "wiley ports" would give up any righting moment gained by the displacement, when rolled, of the cabin sides.

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The mast step would become a tabernacle stepped through the deck.

While letting my imagination run free, I also deleted the centerboard and drew in a pair of bilge keels. I know that they are not popular on this side of the Atlantic, but might have some possibilities in terms of eliminating an intrusive centerboard trunk, leaks from the centerboard pivot, complicated carpentry and difficult maintenance, and would likely reduce draft as well. I probably drew them too deep, as I just sketched them in pretty much as deep as the regular centerboard - they could probably be even shallower than I drew them. From what I've read, adding a small (2" - 4") angled flange to the bottom of the bilge keel, turned outboard at 90-degrees to the main "fin" on each side, vastly increases their "grip" in reducing leeway. It would be a simple matter to add in some additional "floors" to give the bilge keel something to bolt to.

Admittedly bilge keels would add to the wetted area and probably have a slight speed penalty, but they sure are popular on the tidal rivers on Britain's channel coast.

Now, let the comments and criticisms roll!
Last edited by tpelle on Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

slug
Posts: 1447
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:49 am
Location: Colborne ON Can

Re: Minuet Musings

Post by slug » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:38 pm

Like the bilge keels...........don't know why they aren't more common over here.
Do yoy have a plan of the layout done yet?
Doug

Rob Myran
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:47 am
Location: Viroqua, Wisconsin

Re: Minuet Musings

Post by Rob Myran » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:08 pm

I kind of like the bilge keels and skeg for the rudder if you can engineer it all strong enough. I considered a keel (center) but decided against it because I really wanted my boat to be easy to launch on shallow angled "crappy" boat ramps like most fishing boats can be. But that is part of the fun with boat building. We each have special purposes in mind and for you the bilge keels and skeg may be just the ticket and the kind of challenge you are looking for.

I am a bit leery about extending the cabin to the shear. Two things: On small light boat it is nice to be able to walk along the side to the bow and keep your weight lower. It is also nice to have head-sail sheets run along the deck. You may also want a down-haul to run along the deck, too. Second is I worry about the strength of the hull. Those side deck stiffen up the hull quite a lot. Since you are lengthening the cabin both forward and back you would need more beaming across the cabin roof which adds weight higher. Nothing insurmountable, but worth looking at.
Another fine mess I've gotten myself into!

tpelle
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:34 am
Location: Northern Kentucky along Ohio River

Re: Minuet Musings

Post by tpelle » Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:25 pm

Here are a couple of pics that I downloaded off of a site describing the 16' Senior "Mikros" showing the bilge keels:

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The top of each bilge keel is a flange shaped in a curve to fit the hull, and the keel itself is welded on to the flange. I believe the gentleman restoring this boat - it was built by his father, I gather - added the angle-iron "shoe", which improved the ability of the keel in preventing leeway.

The keels are simply through-bolted into floor timbers in the same way that a regular ballast keel would be.

I think that "Mikros" was originally built with a centerboard, which was changed to a single fin keel, then the bilge keels were added. At least that's what I gather was the history of this particular boat. For a Minuet I think I would just omit the center keel and just use the two bilge keels.

Anyway, I bet that two 3/8" steel keels would be all the ballast that a Minuet would ever need. The skeg, too, would be a useful addition, as it would protect the rudder when "taking the ground" (Either on purpose or accidentally!). The boat would sit on it's own landing gear like a milkstool. I bet you could trailer the boat on a flatbed, if you wanted to, with it just sitting upright on its keels and skeg. I believe John Letcher trailered his Aleutka all the way across the country on a flatbed trailer, with the boat just sitting on its skeg and bilge keels.

As to the interior, I don't think I'd do anything too radical. If I did go with the bilge keels and thereby omitted the centerboard, I think I'd just "notch" the head of the v-berth triangle back to where the mast/compression post came through. If I chose to not widen the cabin out to the sheer, I would probably like to include some sort of backrest at the width of the cabin clamp, and hinge the front of the backrest down so as to allow for some storage behind the backrest. I really would like to have some sort of reasonably comfortable seating inside the cabin - I envision sitting in the cabin at anchor, sipping a whiskey before bedtime and enjoying a good book. At the aft end of the cabin I'd like a Force-10 sea-swing stove on the starboard side, maybe some cooks storage under a little shelf across the rear of the cabin, and a "dresser" to port with some sort of toilet facility under it.

Here's a pic of another Senior showing something of the cabin arrangement that I had in mind:

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I keep picking on the Y.M. Senior as it's a boat of very similar size to a Minuet, except that it's a double chine hull and is actually a little narrower in beam at 6'.

I'm not so sure how the forward hatch would work out, so I developed another rendering without the hatch, and showing the bilge keels and skeg a little shallower:

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The "extension" on the front of the cabin, again, is just a coaming with no real function except that I just like the looks. The cabin itself is actually shorter than the original Glen-L design, with the cabin front just aft of the tabernacle. This would force the chainplates out to the sheer, which I think is an improvement over having them on the cabin sides, as the fixings could be stronger and the base would be wider.

Here's what I mean by the coamings:

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