Glen-L.com

Hello all,

My name is Scott and i'm from California. I have always had a dream of sailing and have recently started perusing my dream thanks to a co-worker. I'm going to be starting a build soon and wanted some advice. I am a firefighter but used to work in construction so I have a vast knowledge in wood working. I was hoping to get some tips as far as best wood to use for frame etc., as well as anything you learned that you could pass on good or bad.

Thanks,

Scott S.

Scott

You're in the right place! Welcome.

Bill

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Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

Scott,

I would recommend you start out by browsing the links on the left and searching through the message board archives. On the toolbar on the left, there are articles that specifically address woods to use, recommended tools, plywood types etc.

Glen-L also has an amazing book called "Boatbuilding with Plywood." There is a new book too, but I do not own it (...yet). If you go to the Newsletter section and then search by the Topic Index that is a great place to start. I also would look into the "Wood and Plywood" section as it has some great information. Good luck on your build. There are a few of us sailboat builders around.

Once you get into your build, we love pictures! Also the 14 is very similar to the 15 I think, and there are many of those builders around (Dave-Rational Root, and a guy named Mark I think that build a nice blue and white one.)

Again, welcome and keep us posted with pics.

Robert

The -15 is my first boat build too.

I read about 500 webpages on wood choices for boat building before I bought a single piece. I should have spent that time building instead. After you read about three pages you will have a short list of good candidates and a long list of "never use these." I think you can really distill wood choice down to price. I will be painting most of my boat, so the frames won't show all that much. Looking back now, I would think about the length of time you are going to own this boat before you get the itch for something bigger, and how much you want to spend to build it. I would have found (relatively) cheaper wood and spend big on the exposed parts. In the beginning I thought that I would poly/varnish/clearcoat the who inside, but as work progressed it became clear that I should cover as much as I could with paint. The guys over in the powerboat forum have some really nice looking boats. It also took them Y E A R S to build them. I know it's a "labor of love," it is for me too, but the sailing is much more fun than being covered in sawdust as you make that @$!% part for the fourth time so it will fit just right.

Anyway, heres my (short) experience.

My frames and whatnot are "real" Honduras (?) Mahogany and they cost me about $1,400 so far. I do have some leftover, but will need more for the seats, floor boards, splash guard, CB trunk cap, etc. (You know, all the stuff people will actually see...) I bought 7 sheets of 6mm (1/4") Austin (manufactured in India)(??) HydroCore plywood for $350 plus freight. I think I could have gotten away with cheaper stuff since it will be encapsulated (buzzword here for "coated") with epoxy to make it waterproof.

After reading the first three websites on wood for boats I should have just bought what I thought was most cost effective. In the South you can get SYP (southern yella' pine) or white oak for reasonable and everything else is spendy. SYP is junk wood from my reading and oak don't take too kindly to epoxy. I narrowed my list to Mahogany (expensive = Phillipine, outrageous = Honduras), Spruce, CVG fir and Cyrpress. Cypress is still cheap (relative) but was too much work to track down. Asking for CVG fir at the lumber yard got me a few blank stares. This was a well stocked lumber yard too, not HomeDepot of Lowe's. Spruce was special order since it grows mostly on your coast up into Alaska. So I bought the most expensive rough cut Mahogany I could find and went to work. Looks really good until the changing humidity and kiln dried nature of the wood made it warp and split in funny ways. That caused a lot of waste as I tried to re-saw a straight piece out of the mess. I think I have thrown away half of the wood as sawdust.

If I build another -15 I will try to buy as much wood, plywood, etc. at HomeDepot or Lowe's as I can. Use the savings on the bronze screws (Glen-L's fastener kit is the best price around) and extra coats of epoxy. I would also build it faster so I could enjoy the fruits of my labor. I know you can't (read: shouldn't) rush this sort of thing, and I may be in blasphemy territory here but I know I stressed out about many things that were way too small to matter. My dad built a boat when he was 16 and used Mahogany that came to a total of something ridiculous like $57.26. It took him a month of afternoons and he still got his homework done. He sailed it on the SF Bay (I'm a native Californian, stuck in SC against my will) for three years before he sold it to a guy who bought the boat because it came on a trailer, and he really needed a trailer. If my son (2) ever wants to build a boat over 10 feet long, I would tell him to buy one. You'll be on the water quicker, there is always something to fix anyway and I would bet you save money and headache. Even if it took me 10 years to build a 15 foot boat it will never match the precision of a mass produced fiberglass dinghy. Wood looks and feels good, but do you want to look good or go sailing? I can't wait to finish my build so I can get to the good stuff.

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All advice is worth listening to, even if you don't follow it.
watch as I attempt to build the Glen L - 15 @
http://www.stevesboat.blogspot.com

I am nearing the end of a Glen-l 14, have a look at my blog.

(Learn from my mistakes )

http://davesboat.blogspot.com/

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Hey! I built a boat ! No Really, I did !
http://davesboat.blogspot.com/

Maybe that is a great post and I agree with your comments on lumber and plywood.
I used "African Mahogany"...ie really a spruce....for my frames, keel, longitudinals, chine, sheer, etc. It was a lot cheaper than Honduran (African = $5.50-$6.50 /bft and Hondurance = $11-12/bft).

I ordered the expensive Aquatech Marine PLywood (BS6566 Meranti equivalent) from Edensaw woods out of Washington and had it shipped ($125) to Dallas. It was a far better plywood than could be bought locally and it was cheaper than the local Marine DF.

Maybe has a good point though. Make sure you undertake this with the right mindset. Do you want to go sailing or do you want to build a boat. If you want to go sailing, go buy a used fiberglass boat. If you want a truly unique experience and a boat you can take pride in knowing that you built it, then go ahead and build. None of this is rocket-science. It is simply following one step after the next.

Good luck!
Robert

There's plywood, and there's marine plywood and there's Marine Plywood.

The local builders providers sells marine ply. Excellent. Less than half the price of the stuff sold by Waller Wickham. What's not to like.

Well - specifically, there's only 3 plys on the 6mm boards. And the veneer ply is as thin as paint, leaving a big fat ply in the middle with all it's strength along one axis. Not likely to hold up to much of anything.

So I bit the bullet and wandered down to Waller Wickham and got a sheet of 5 ply 6mm to make up the gussets and the centerboard case. I believe the ply they stock is Robbins Elite.

Who was it that said "Light, strong, cheap, pick any two". This stuff is light, strong, well made, but not cheap.

I didn't feel as though I even had a decision to make though, the builders yard marine ply was totally inadequate, even though it was stamped with BS1088.

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Hey! I built a boat ! No Really, I did !
http://davesboat.blogspot.com/

Sailboats have become very inexpensive during this economic downturn. There are a lot of "older" boats available for few dollars. I reasoned my build this way; when you're in the harbour there will always be a bigger more expensive boat than yours. Alternatively, if you build a boat it really does not matter how big it is. It's a reflection of you as a person and not as a wallet.
That said, you want to do a good job while building the boat the way you want to use it. You may want to save money but you also want to shine when explaining you built the boat yourself to the harbour patrol. Where wood will be exposed under clear varnish, don't select a lifeless pale slab. I don't think it sensible to use mahogany and then paint it white. Where you are going to paint the wood, use a good wood that's low cost, easy to work with, glues and screws well, has sufficient weight and strength for the position and is resistant to the conditions it will be under. Douglas fir can look like the spawn of Medusa but it has good properties and is well priced. Oak, is heavy, strong, takes bumps and looks nice. Use it where its properties work to your advantage. Same with mahogany. Some lumber suppliers have surplus wood that has not sold well such as Purple Heart that you can pick up for a good price. I used Spanish Cedar for some of my boat but I had to increase its widths because it was a little bit weaker than the preferred choice. I used IPE for some of the strong backs because it is like iron but it checks and glues badly. Certainly, don't waste money but do a good job without going over the top and you will feel good about it when it comes time to show it off.

Stuart

I am not sure if this specifically applies to your build, but I am very happy I picked up a top grade marine plywood (Meranti BS1088) for my Malahini build. You appreciate it when you put all your weight to bend something about 2' long around a 9" bend and it does not snap in the process because of some internal flaw.

For lumber I used Sapelle... not as expensive as Honduran 'pure'.. but great to work with, excellent rot resistance and strong enough to take the beating I am surely going to place on my boat. White Oak was another option, but for me I wanted something that did not needs as much prep for epoxy.

I also used some douglas fir.. as filler material for my transom (outboard, so you want it strong)..and I be using DF for some of my framework for seating as well.

Boatbuilding is about the process.. and part of your design choices (size/style) should reflect how long you intend on working on the project before you actually use it. This summer, I won't be boating all that much because I am inside my garage working on my boat. That said.. I can still rent or buy a cheap boat to use.. and my family just happens to have a sailboat I will be using in 2 weeks to get out on the lake.

I don't regret a single minute spent working on my build so far. You can certainly buy a (used) boat cheaper.. and its certainly faster to go buy one than make one.

But what you cannot buy is the boatbuilding experience.. and from my perspective its about as fun a actually operating the boat.

I'd say build the size you want... because you ultimately have to enjoy it and odds are even then you will wish you built something bigger.

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Ian (aka Iggy)
My Malahini Build

Hi Scott, Welcome.

Where in California are you?

I have a California wood source if you wanted to go with Sepo.

I am building a Glen-L 17 and I am a professional woodworker so maybe I can help.

I have a lot of info on my build site about Sepo so check it out.

http://jerryandadamswoodenboat2010.shutterfly.com/

Feel free to contact me, Jerry

I started my GL-15 in early Feb 2011. I have built the frames with white oak. It is very strong and holds fasteners extremely well. I occasionally drive nails to hold parts together for duplicating and I have to drill a pilot hole almost as big as the nails. Afterwards they are still difficult to remove. I have been using the hot dipped galvanized screws because they are cheap and work well. I have heard there is some problems using epoxy on white oak apparently it doesn't attach real well (doesn't soak in well).
I have been using birch marine plywood that is available in the Detroit area. It seems nice but is stiffer than fir. That could be an advantage on the frames but may be a problem on the planking. I may find a fir source for that.
I am considering fiberglassing the bottom, centerboard and rutter and painting the rest. I am about to start assembling the centerboard trunk and fiberglassing it. That is my next step.
I look forward to hearing about your progress when you start.

I have just completed a glen-L 15. How are you doing I know your post is kinda old.

Photos?

_________________
Hey! I built a boat ! No Really, I did !
http://davesboat.blogspot.com/