New Glen-L 14 Build

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aspags88
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Re: New Glen-L 14 Build

Postby aspags88 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:29 pm

hoodman, after some more research I see what you mean. Sanders are new to me, everything I've sanded prior to this I will have done by hand. Sanding this thing by hand would be a nightmare. The reason I was looking at belt sanders and what they can offer is to shape the curve on the ID of the frame sides. the belt sanders have the exposed roller which would very nicely in that area.

Not to get ahead of myself but I've been leaning toward fairing with a hand plane so I may be able to make due without a belt sander with a set the disc sander on the table saw and a sanding bit for a drill. I'm attempting to be economical with tools, I could afford both a belt sander and ROS if both are needed but if there are cheaper alternatives I will pursue those.

dbischa
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Re: New Glen-L 14 Build

Postby dbischa » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:47 am

Not sure what you mean exactly when you say the curve of the ID of the frame sides. Are you saying the side where the planking will meet the frame?

If so, there is no great need to get these perfect, use a hand plane and apply the panels of plywood with thickened epoxy. Don't screw the ply into the frames though. The general shape of the curve of the frame needs to be correct and the plywood will conform to it. Also, part of the frame may well be faired off so you'll just be giving yourself extra work if you try to sand it to shape. I used a plane to get all of my frames to the correct shape.

If that's not what you mean, can you explain further?

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Milhouse
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Re: New Glen-L 14 Build

Postby Milhouse » Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:37 pm

I would get a 12" disc sander and not try to bastardize a table saw but that just me...I get all my stuff on craigslist for a great deal...I got a delta 12" for $50.The grizzly is not terrible: https://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G7297-Disc-Sander-12-Inch/dp/B0000DD6AX/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1484876054&sr=8-2&keywords=disk+sander+grizzly

To do the inside curves you want a Oscillating spindle sander:
https://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G0739-Oscillating-Spindle-Sander/dp/B00DQJPCFU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1484876186&sr=8-4&keywords=oscillating+grizzly

Harbor freight makes one...but I would try and get a better one to start with...

This is a great sander, with really good dust collection:
https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-ROS20VSC-Random-Sander-Carrying/dp/B00BD5G9VA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1484875692&sr=8-1&keywords=ROS20VSC

If you are loaded then I'd recommend a festool :D

A also recommend these for fairing ( i have three different lengths):
https://www.amazon.com/FLEXIBLE-BOARD-SANDER-SANDING-BLOCK-PAINT/dp/B002LZYV48/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1484875953&sr=8-14&keywords=flexible+sander

The only time I used a belt sander to do some really rough fairing on the plywood planking.

Full disclosure: I am a tool addict
Jim
16' Ski Boat Restoration
17' Overnighter Sloop

I'd rather have a $h!tty meal than an $h!tty resume because a totally awesome resume will feed me steak one day - Steve Poltz

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hoodman
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Re: New Glen-L 14 Build

Postby hoodman » Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:46 pm

I used a hand plane to get my frames down to the pencil lines after cutting them out. If I would have had a spokeshave that would have been useful in certain situations. I got one for Christmas and have already put it to use. I do very little sanding to shape wood. Shavings are much more pleasant to deal with than dust everywhere. I used a hand plane almost exclusively for fairing except for a small area forward on the sheers. It is difficult to use a hand plane at waist height while sitting on the ground. Keep your blades sharp and you'll be happy.

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Stuart
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Re: New Glen-L 14 Build

Postby Stuart » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:26 am

I think you are building the frame laps with Okume plywood? Okume is light in weight and structurally weaker than Meranti. Make sure the plywood has more than three laminations.

Stuart

Moeregaard
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Re: New Glen-L 14 Build

Postby Moeregaard » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:34 am

Stuart wrote:I think you are building the frame laps with Okume plywood? Okume is light in weight and structurally weaker than Meranti. Make sure the plywood has more than three laminations.

Stuart


I planked my Can-Yaks with 6mm (~1/4") Okoume, which has five plies. Okoume's primary weakness is its durability when exposed to moisture, so be sure that it's well encapsulated. It's very nice stuff to work with.

-Mark Shipley

One Zip, two Can-Yaks, who knows what's next...
A boat is just a wooden box with no right angles.

aspags88
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Location: Connecticut

Re: New Glen-L 14 Build

Postby aspags88 » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:15 am

Milhouse and Hoodman, thank you for the input, I will be sure to check out those tools and keep my search going for a hand plane. Unfortunately I am not loaded so I won't be looking at festool anytime soon. I've got a big enough budget to complete the boat in a reasonable period of time, and in general tools don't count toward that budget as long as I am being what my wife would consider reasonable about what tools I am buying.

As for the plywood question, yes I am going to be using 1/4 inch (6 mm) Okume for planking, the centerboard trunk, gussets, etc. Everything will be fully encapsulated as the build progresses. For the larger items (stem, transom, breasthook, etc) I am using 3/4 inch Okume. This decision was based partly on wood availability in my area. From my research it was what I could find locally.

No work happened this week as I was recovering from a cold. I'm hoping to get the large parts traced out on the 3/4 ply and cut tomorrow, then back to the tool search.

TAB
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Re: New Glen-L 14 Build

Postby TAB » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:29 am

as some one that owns a bunch of festool, some of it is well worth the money, most is not.

I make sawdust for a living. out of everything I have bought festool only the track saw, vacs and routers were worth the money. every thing else was not worth what the lesser quality tools were worth.


I have sanders, drills, miter saw( biggest waste of money ever.) routers, track saws and vacs. the drill was worse then my 20volt dewalt, their miter saw has the worst table ever and their sanders are no different then the yellow/blue/red you can buy at the box stores.

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Stuart
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Re: New Glen-L 14 Build

Postby Stuart » Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:09 am

@ aspags88, I may have misread your post but a hand plane was essential to my build. I used my grandfathers Stanley hand plane which had been dropped and the cast iron broken somewhere about the time of the roaring 20's. It was brazed and put back into service I don't know when. My father purchased a Stanley hand plane which looks identical to my grandfathers and it has been near useless. A hand plane is a magical tool and needs the workers strength of will to function. Skill seems to have less to do with it. Hand planes can be had very cheaply. Second hand stores, thrift shops, and antique shops always seem to have a few going for pennies and I either end up buying one or standing wondering if I should. A voice says you have enough. If you see an old Stanley then its as good as it gets. I have a Makita power plane but I shaped a 20ft keel using my Stanley hand plane while a new Makita sat in its box. A hand plane is a joy to use when it works correctly but most hand planes do not. I had a small plane with all the bells and whistles and I sharpened it in every way I knew and it would not plane. Not ever. I had a small Stanley with a wood wedge holding the blade and its the best plane I have. Always works even when the blade is dull. That said, the most valuable tool I have is a hand belt sander. I use it in ways I shouldn't and one day the monster almost took my thumb off and sent me to the hospital to tidy up the mess. It can fix any job that your other tools can not. The thing is to use the right grit of paper for the job. But my advice is this, do not buy cheap power tools. If you can't afford a good one then claw, gnaw and nibble until you can. Your digits will thank you. :wink:

Stuart

dbischa
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Re: New Glen-L 14 Build

Postby dbischa » Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:50 am

A hand plane is essential. Mine was a $20 job from a box store here in Australia. Worked great so long as I had it sharpened to at least the correct bevel. A lesson learnt.

I also bought a $60 orbital sander and it died after sanding the undercoat of the deck on my 13. I should have just wet sanded as I've had much better results with it, almost no mess and about the same amount of time.

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hoodman
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Re: New Glen-L 14 Build

Postby hoodman » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:49 am

The price of any handplane that you buy is not as important as learning to set it up look up Paul Sellers on YouTube for some good instruction.

aspags88
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Re: New Glen-L 14 Build

Postby aspags88 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:47 pm

Stuart,

I have every intention of buying an old Stanley hand plane, I've just been searching ebay and the like for one that comes in at the right price. From all the research I've done and what's been said here I understand setup and sharpening is key.

In the short term I've borrowed my dad's belt sander and ROS to try them out and get some sanding done on my frames. I will probably also pick up a disc for the table saw for some material removal while keeping everything square. Once I get a feel for what tools work best for me I will go purchase some nice ones. In the meantime I will keep plugging away at getting parts cut/traced/sanded.

Thanks all for the input and patience for the guy :lol:

aspags88
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Location: Connecticut

Re: New Glen-L 14 Build

Postby aspags88 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:46 pm

Hey all,

Quick question on my transom. On the plans the outer and inner edge of the transom are shown. I often see on the forum that you should add an inch or two around the sides and bottom of the transom to account for the bevel. It appears as though this was done in the plans already. Should I add additional size around the transom beyond what appears to be accounted for in the plan?

Finally got all the parts transferred onto the 3/4 inch ply and will be cutting more wood tomorrow!

dbischa
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Re: New Glen-L 14 Build

Postby dbischa » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:00 am

I found that the plans for the 13 were not accurate for the transom. The bevel for the bottom edges of the transom were out by 10 degrees. It required 10 degrees more bevel so it was just a matter of taking more off. From my experience with the 13, study the plans and make sure you are clear in your mind how the bevel works before making any cuts. This includes the frame members for the transom.

Perhaps it would be worthwhile checking the plan sheets and measuring the angle that the transom knee makes to the transom and see if that angle corresponds to the bevel on the transom. In the case for the 13 it was out by 10. On the 13 the transom knee makes an angle 116 degrees to the transom and the plans require a 16 degree bevel. The difference between the two angles needs to be 90, not 100 degrees. Hence the extra 10 degrees.

I cut my transom roughly with a jig saw then took it back to the correct bevel on all edges using my hand plane. Don't forget to notch your transom frame members for the longitudinals before adding them to the plywood.

I forgot to add in the rear deck support notch but it wasn't a major structural component and when it came time to adding the rear deck support (after the hull was flipped) I just added blocking for it.

I also found that the transom side bevels had a slight twist to them in order for the side panels to meet. This twisted bevel was faired while the transom was on the building form and after the longitudinals had been added so the transom was well supported.

Not the same boat but I hope my experiences can help save you some grief.

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steveh41
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Re: New Glen-L 14 Build

Postby steveh41 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:49 pm

Just a quick comment... I've found it useful to measure bevels directly from the work, since in spite of my best efforts sometimes the angle of the structure as built is not quite the same as what was indicated on the plans. :? It makes sense to leave some extra material and cut or plane your bevel after everything is securely in place...

Steve
The longest journey begins with a single step… then repeat as necessary!


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