Bull's Eye...mostly

Dinghies, day sailers, world cruisers. Many small sailboats make ideal rowboats or low-speed power boats.

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Cranky Badger
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:06 am
Location: BC coast

Bull's Eye...mostly

Post by Cranky Badger »

I'm thinking that the Bull's Eye (sloop) might be the predecessor to building a Lord Nelson, since I just lost the big building space I had lined up so I could start it in the fall :cry:
Sure glad it happened now and not a year from now though !

I won't be getting the Bull's Eye plans for a bit yet, but I've got some material left over from another boat and it's just sitting there, so it's time to put yet another iron in the fire.

A few questions I wouldn't mind kicking around...
I figure I'll start with the mast. I want to make a hollow wooden mast with internal halyards and I'm wondering about the dimensions you guys might have come up with. I haven't made one before but I have made a few hip-roofed 'treasure chest' style trunks, so I think I've got the procedure figured out.
I know the luff is 14' and the foot is 7'3" according to the plans, but what were your overall lengths for the mast and boom ? Looking at the photos, I think I'm going to raise the boom about 6". I'm 6'1"ish and my back isn't what it used to be so tacking looks like it wouldn't be much fun ducking under the boom as it comes across.
I'll increase the area of the daggerboard and rudder a little to allow for the higher CE. I'll use the stock Glen-L sails, so that'll push the overall height up a bit and require a longer stick, but I can allow for that (plus a bit...as always :wink: ) on paper.

Does this design benefit from raking the mast when you rig it ? I can't really tell because while there's no backstay, the shrouds are swept back a bit (a la Hunter)...
If so, I won't bother with internal bulkheads in the mast which would make it less 'springy'. Sure would be easier to have them in there as forms and glue up the staves all at once though...
Maybe use plastic and rig them together with a line through the centers so I can pull 'em out the bottom after it's all glued up ?

To help compensate for the increased weight aloft, I figure I'll taper the mast's staves so that I have a tapered mast when the corners are planed round. Assuming 2 internal sheaves at the masthead for the main and jib, what should I figure my inside diameter should be at the masthead ? I'm figuring on running 3/8" line over 3" sheaves top and bottom and cleats on the mast with backing plates. By the numbers, it ought to be around 4" or so inside ?
What have you guys used for the I.D. at the step ?

What are the stock dimensions for the daggerboard and rudder ? Any thoughts on adding a steel plate to the bottom of the board ?

Lastly, anyone flown a spinnaker on one of these ? I know that's probably over the top, but it might be fun to play with.

To be crystal clear, this is in no way an attempt to avoid paying for the plans and build rights. As a builder myself, I know how important (and fair) it is that people be compensated for their intellectual property.
I'm just going to need another project shortly as I'm wrapping up the current one pretty quick...and it bugs me when I'm not making a mess in the shop...

Any other thoughts are appreciated too (as always)

To all the other Canucks on the board today: What are you doing reading this ?
Get out on the water !
Happy Canada Day !
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:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
-Brian

"Do or do not. There is no try."
- Yoda

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sunflounder
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:34 am
Location: Langley, WA

Re: Bull's Eye...mostly

Post by sunflounder »

CB;
I'm a current Bull's-Eye builder and have contemplated some of your musings myself.

As I recall from my recent glue up the dagger board is 3/4" thick 12" wide by about 3' long and depending on how you do the handle. It has a slight width taper and rounded bottom with a sort of foil shape. I have been thinking of putting some ballast on it but as I sail in seaweed infested waters hauling the board up and down alot with weight on it combined with the fact that the suggested fastening for a 'loose' dagger board is some outdoor carpet and bunje cord I think I will have to go with 'butt ballast' alone.
The rudder is about 9" narrowing at the bottom with a complex tiller supporting shape at the top. Several folks have mentioned wanting to have a kickup rudder so having any weight to it may be counterproductive. I am going to try Glen-L's hardware version of the kickup mechanism but haven't installed it yet.

I'm planning on building the spars for the Spirit rig and figure on just gluing up some DF so as to have some hollow interior as per the plans, which include directions for building up a simple mast for all the rig types though they recomend aluminum for the sloop and cat rigging. There are some directions for doing a 'birds mouth' type hollow mast on the web but not in the plans. I think the sloop rig does specify some rake to the mast.

The plans are full size for most all the parts (except the spars) with adequate instructions but a bit sparse on technique for a stone beginner such as myself. I almost wish I had gone for one of the framed boats so as to avoid the 'no solid refrence point' aspect of the FastG method and got some experience with frames for my next build .... perhaps a Minuet :).

I have finally ordered some reference books form Glen-L (back orderd alas) but I fear no amount of reading can deal with "Epoxy Panic" or just how thick 'peanut butter' epoxy is until one has done it ... over and over (and over) again.

Still it might make a nice tender for your Lord Nelson :))

DaveA

Cranky Badger
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:06 am
Location: BC coast

Re: Bull's Eye...mostly

Post by Cranky Badger »

Hehe...butt ballast... :mrgreen:

Thanks for the info Dave, that's exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for. I just need to make sure I'm making the parts big enough: you can always cut some off but it's tough to put it back on....without having to do more fairing at least, lol.

The 3' dagger board is going to get longer for sure, even if I have to cut it down later. A hunk of metal in a longer board might let me get this thing to stand on its ear...

I've noticed 'Fast-G' mentioned before. How does it differ from the regular S&G ? When the plans talk about 'folding the plywood for a vee bottom', is that just like sounds ? I'm envisioning kerfing the fold line and keeping the outer veneer of the plywood intact ?

If I can offer any advice regarding mixing the (fairing) putty it would simply be that epoxy is hard to sand and balloons are easy. The thicker the putty the better and if it doesn't stick because it's so thick just wet the wood with some unthickened epoxy - then it'll stick like poo to a blanket.

This post has bonus content...pics!
I was sailing one of these this afternoon.
Imagine the fun of a dinghy you could weekend on AND carry your beer...
Martin 242 (local club racer):
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I know it's not as good as the pic in the first post, but together they'd make a hell of a combination !
Last edited by Cranky Badger on Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Brian

"Do or do not. There is no try."
- Yoda

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sunflounder
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:34 am
Location: Langley, WA

Re: Bull's Eye...mostly

Post by sunflounder »

Brian:
I used to have plastic trailer sailer (Venture 21) back in the day (I'm a retired geezer) that I did indeed weekend and drink beer on San Diego way ... back in the 60's. Not as snappy as the picture but it did have a 150% Genoa.

Back to the present... The Fast-G method is basically like putting together a peeled banana with no internal structure (the Bull's-eye has but one temporary brace about amidships. The vee hull is formed by stitching together separate formed pieces of plywood that result in a complex curving (banana) like shape. It is really fast all right but tricky to get everything lined up as it is very flexible on initial assembly (once again envision sewing together a banana skin) and only takes on solidity as you add various parts and putty them up (shear strips, breasthook, knees etc.). Check out some of the customer photos of the Bulls-eye on the website.
It looks like most of the rest of Glen-L designs use some frames to mount the plywood on with a build frame to square stuff up and measure from. None of that dreary precision for the Bull's-eye : )

If you want some entertaining distraction and some humblingly beautiful sailboat work (there are lot of gorgeous oldstyle powerboat stuff on the Glen-L site not so many sailboats though) check out Peter Grons site (boat project) http://members.shaw.ca/pgron/index.htm
Another Canadian I believe ... must be those long winters :)

DaveA

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BruceDow
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Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
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Re: Bull's Eye...mostly

Post by BruceDow »

Cranky Badger.

For a hollow mast, check out the "birds' mouth" method. I first learned about this when someone brought one (under construction) to the first Gathering.

Here's an example.

http://frankhagan.com/weekender/mastm.htm
Bruce.

~~ Do what you love, and love what you do. ~~
~~ To me - only my boat is not yet perfect. Everybody else's is to be admired for I know the path they have walked (Dave Lott, 2010) ~~
Dow's Monaco Project

Cranky Badger
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:06 am
Location: BC coast

Re: Bull's Eye...mostly

Post by Cranky Badger »

Hehe...
Bruce, that was the page where I first saw how to do it. I was going to build a Vacationer, then decided against it.
Thanks for the link, I haven't seen it in a while.

Dave thanks for the link. Yellow cedar is one of my personal favorites. About a year ago I milled up a 14" sq post that was replaced in my basement from when the house was built sometime around 1945. It was tough to use as trim though because the post had only 5' of good wood thanks to the ants. It looks great in that Tern.
-Brian

"Do or do not. There is no try."
- Yoda

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