Electric cooking.

Wiring your boat, How to Wire Lights/Accessories, All things electrical other than actually powering your boat by electric motors.

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chugalug
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Electric cooking.

Postby chugalug » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:28 am

This has probably been hashed over on another link,however would it be safer to cook on the water with 12 volt appliances instead of propane? or do they draw too much for batteries to handle?There is a lot of appliances used by truckers and campers.Just trying to figure out if I want to install powerpoints on the Bo. :roll:
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Re: Electric cooking.

Postby Bill Edmundson » Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:39 am

Tim

I'm going 110V. I have a double hotplate, water heater and a small electric grill. My thought is that I would probably be in a marina and hook to shore power. Or, I have a 2100w portable generator that I can also take. Everything but the water heater can be used anyplace.

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mrintense
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Re: Electric cooking.

Postby mrintense » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:30 am

I am a long way from having to consider these items yet. Given the size of my cabin, appliances will be limited. I doubt I will ever use it for anything other than an overnight camper. At one time I was considering Air Conditioning, a refrigerator, running water, and a single burner stove. Until I start mocking everything up, this will remain simply an exercise in thinking. I'm torn on adding external power to my boat. I have considered a generator but the room is limited. Still not sure at this point. :? :? :?
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raymacke
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Re: Electric cooking.

Postby raymacke » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:54 pm

If you are running a generator or using shore power then electric cooking may well be an alternative but if running from batteries it would require a healthy bank to handle the load. For example, most 120V stand alone single burner cooking units are 1200 to 1500 watts and if my math is correct (W/V=A) that is about 100 to 125 amps of 12V - plus you have to add the loss in efficiency introduced by the inverter. That's a serious draw. Looking at the units often advertised for truckers you will see they draw less amperage but are outputting less wattage (heat). At home we have a George Foreman type contact grill that works well at 800 watts. The 12V version you see listed usually is only 400 watts.

What this means is it takes at least twice as long to cook the same thing and in the end you use the same amount of power. I looked at a 12v coffee maker for my wife but found complaints it took more than 30 minutes to make a cup. Found a 12v skillet that only used 130w. Can you imagine how long it would take to fry and egg over 150w light bulb? (incandescent bulbs are actually very efficient heaters that happen to put out some light) After looking in to them we decided to forgo most 12v cooking appliances.

Propane can indeed be dangerous on a boat - but then again so can gasoline. Both demand proper storage and handling but can work well for the diligent boat owner. On my True Grit we have both gasoline and propane and I am very careful about operating and maintaining the systems. We have a propane refrigerator and marine heater. We also have a propane alarm system that sniffs for gas and shuts the entire system down if a fault is found. Personally I think the most important part is to be sure to properly install the system. This is not a place to take short cuts. BTW - propane is no less dangerous at home and thousands of people cook and heat with it (we do) with a good safety record.

But still we decided not to cook with propane. One of the reasons was heat and buildup in the saloon. Running a "heater" in the cabin during the summer just didn't seem to make sense. During cooler weather it might be more acceptable but then there is the problem with moisture build up - propane puts a lot of water in the air plus the moisture from what ever you are cooking. Instead we went with a small microwave which will run off shore power or the Honda 2000 generator we have on board and a butane single burner unit. If you are not familiar with these I have a link below. They operate on a canister of butane that slides into the unit. We keep the extra butane cans in the propane locker although unopened they probably could be stored elsewhere. (NOTE - like propane, butane is heaver than air and will settle into low areas).

The unit we bought came with a protective plastic case. When not in use it can be stored in a locker or cabinet. When we want to use it it is portable so it can be placed outback in the cockpit and used there with all the heat staying outside. If outside conditions are bad it still can be used inside - the easy portability makes it very versatile. Also, it is self contained so there is no plumbing or wiring AND it is very reasonably priced.

For us it made sense - your mileage may vary!

http://www.amazon.com/Stove-Butane-Single-Case-000/dp/B002QUT3AU/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1439603148&sr=8-5&keywords=butane+cooking
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Re: Electric cooking.

Postby chugalug » Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:50 am

:D Thanks for input-guys.imagine I'll do like Tom Smitherman did.(small propane grill hanging over the back)have to think where to put storage cylinders so possible fumes are vented to outside of hull-maybe construct sink that drains to outside using insides of old plastic cooler
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gap998
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Re: Electric cooking.

Postby gap998 » Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:51 am

In the UK, canal cruisers are almost always use gas (propane) for cooking & often heating too, and they are usually never more than 7ft from shore! There is a compulsory certification called the Boat Safety Scheme which ensures maximum safety.
Gas-system_500x424.jpg

Cylinder sare usually kept in a vented, self draining locker under the bow hatch - Might suit a tug-type boat.
Gas Locker.jpg
Gas Locker.jpg (9.23 KiB) Viewed 3036 times

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Re: Electric cooking.

Postby chugalug » Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:49 am

:D Didn't plan on using bulk tank -just small disposable cylinders stored in container that's vented outside of hull.like those colorful boats over there :D
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Re: Electric cooking.

Postby raymacke » Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:31 pm

chugalug - I agree, a small propane grill hanging off the transom is a very workable solution. And as you mentioned the 1# tanks do need to be kept in a sealed locker that vents at the bottom and goes overboard. Although not in your plans since we have opened this discussion I thought I might add a little more information in case someone searches for propane info and hits this thread.

It appears that ABYC guidelines here in the US differ from the Boat Safety Scheme in the UK. I am not an expert but I did research this for my build and here are the differences I see.

ABYC does allow the use of rubber hose or seamless copper tubing. They also call for pressure gauge on the high pressure side of the regulator and a solenoid shut off valve on the low side with a shut off switch in the cabin near the device. If there is more than one appliance a separate line must run from the locker to each device - placing a "T" a line outside the locker is not approved. (Note - ABYC recommendations are guidelines not the law but many insurance companies use these when underwriting)

Below are a couple links that might help.

http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Safe-Propane-Installations
http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/propane-systems.asp
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Re: Electric cooking.

Postby Ozzieboat » Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:55 pm

Ray
All of those lunchbox cookers (single and double burner) have been recalled in Australia as they didn't meet the certification standard. A shame as they really are a good little picnic cooker. We may have just got the duds in oz. See www.elgas.com.au/blog/1461-accc-recalls ... ox-cookers
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Re: Electric cooking.

Postby gap998 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:23 am

raymacke wrote:It appears that ABYC guidelines here in the US differ from the Boat Safety Scheme in the UK.


Sorry, I meant to add a line at the bottom of my post saying to check local reg's.

ABYC spec. has some interesting additions - I may look into adding them as "belt & bracers".
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Re: Electric cooking.

Postby chugalug » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:23 am

:D So;what is the safest option for cooking on a boat? :roll:
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Re: Electric cooking.

Postby gap998 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:52 am

It's pretty much a choice between death by electrical fire or stranding at sea due to a flat battery VS death by catastrophic gas explosion or CO poisoning - Maybe we should just go ashore to a restaurant!? :lol:

Seriously though Properly done gas is perfectly safe.

When Camping I use one of these with a Small 907 cylinder. Would have to be on an open deck though.
http://www.campingaz.com/uk/p-26859-400-st.aspx
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Re: Electric cooking.

Postby Bill Edmundson » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:57 am

Chug

My wife's answer to cooking safety is a restaurant! The real answer is the operator.

Electric is the safest, if you have access to power. If you don't, it's totally useless.

Propane gives the most flexibility. Install it correctly. It is safe. With any open flame system you should have a CO detector.

Bill
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Re: Electric cooking.

Postby chugalug » Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:39 am

:D Was looking forward to boat camping.Oh well,maybe it's best to camp out in the boat when it's still on trailer.Throw in a nature cd in stereo and tune in the discovery channel on the giant screen tv placed in the v-berth area.kinda hard to imitate the taste of fresh walleye batter fried tho :lol:
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Re: Electric cooking.

Postby raymacke » Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:13 pm

ozzieboat - your post about safety recalls of the lunch box stoves really caught my attention. Looked at your link and several others based in AU. But I then checked for similar action in the US and found very little. A couple of particular brands has recalls - one in 2001 and another in 2010 but there does not appear to be any overall call for a safety action on the units. This makes little sense. If there is a safety issue in AU I would sure think we would have it here too. Also I am still not sure if the AU recall covers all units or just certain ones.

Here the cookers are still sold many places. To name a few, WalMart, Target and Amazon all sell them and even West Marine has two offerings - one in stainless and one painted but both being marketed to boaters. Not sure what to think.

And YEA Bill, my wife has a similar take - boating is suppose to be leisure time and she sure doesn't consider cooking and washing dishes a leisure activity!
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