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port orford Cedar for framing material?

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:52 pm
by gomerrell
Hey Guys.
Really quick question. I have a friend in the lumber biz helping me acquire lumber that has a great deal on port orford cedar. Is this a good substitute for mahogany for my framing materials? I'm building the zip. It looks like from studying it online that it is definitely more flexible and rot resistant than most woods. I was born and raised east coast so I am not familiar with port orford. Will it make for a strong framing material?

CM

Re: port orford Cedar for framing material?

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:47 pm
by Cranky Badger
Hehe...if you were handy with a lathe you could use that wood to make a bunch of sweet arrow shafts and sell them to buy the mahog you want to use for framing.

Put me down for two dozen !


I don't know about the screw-holding ability of that species specifically, but I wouldn't want to use a true cedar for frames because it would be too soft when you are trying to get the sheets or planks to bend and stay there.

But that's just my two cents, having never worked with the stuff.

Re: port orford Cedar for framing material?

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:10 pm
by gomerrell
Thanks Brian. Anyone else want to weigh in?

Re: port orford Cedar for framing material?

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:32 pm
by Lowka53
:roll: here you go info on it
COMMON NAMES: Port Orford cedar, Oregon cedar, Lawson's cypress

SPECIFIC GRAVITY: 0.48

DENSITY: 30pcf

TANGENTIAL MOVEMENT: 7%

RADIAL MOVEMENT: 5%

VOLUMETRIC SHRINKAGE: 10%

DURABILITY: Moderate

SOURCE: Oregon and California, USA, UK, British Columbia

DESCRIPTION: A whitish to pale brown heartwood with wavy streaks of light tan. Straight grain. Spicy fragrance. Texture fine and even. Medium bending, poor steam bending due to buckling. Easily worked with machine or hand tools. Blunting effect on cutting edges is minimal. Good for nails and screws. Stains and paints well. Used for boat and ship construction, canoe paddles and oars, musical organs, furniture, cabinet work, and decorative panelling using knotty wood.


http://www.woodfinder.com/woods/cedar_portorford.php
looks to me would be a good choice to build with :wink: :lol: on another note in wikipedia it states this is not a true cedar

Re: port orford Cedar for framing material?

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:09 pm
by Iggy
CEDAR, PORT ORFORD
30 lbs. per cubic foot, 2.5 lbs. per board foot
Grown in limited areas of Northern California and Southern Oregon, it is the preferred species of boat building cedars. Although only moderately strong, it is the strongest cedar and the heaviest before seasoning. The heartwood is light yellow to pale brown with a distinctive spicy odor. The wood is fine and uniform in texture, moderately hard, shrinks moderately, seasons well, and is very resistant to rot.
http://www.glen-l.com/wood-plywood/bb-chap5d.html

Thats straight from Glen-L's wood selection guide. I wouldn't seek it out, but if I came accross a smoking good deal and local supplier that will let me hand-pick.. then I would be tempted. Be sure to get the right cut (quartersawn or riftcut), particularly if you plan on using this for the bending parts, like the chine and shear.

Re: port orford Cedar for framing material?

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:21 pm
by gomerrell
Thanks. You guys are awesome!

I'll price out Mahogany vs Port Orford. What other woods would be your top choice for building the frame of a zip (14 foot ski boat)?

Re: port orford Cedar for framing material?

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:40 pm
by Iggy
I've seen other builders use white oak, mahogany (honduras or Sapelle or Khaya) and of course douglas fir.

In my case, I shipped Sapelle from the west coast of Canada.. ordered in bulk from a reputable boat lumber supplier and ended up with a lot of really good material. They planed it down on the face and gave ma a straight edge before they shipped it (for a little bit extra).. but it saved me a lot of time doing that myself as I don't have a thickness planer myself.

The lightest, strongest, bendable, rot-resistant and epoxy friendly material for the lowest price is what you are after. A lot depends on where you are and what is available.

And nothing prevents you from 'mixing it up'.. using mohagany for the bending parts (chine, sheer) and Orford Cedar for the frames & battens. I've use Douglas Fir plywood for part of my motor board (as a core).. will probably use it for my upholstered seating.. my painted floor.. and probably for my sub-deck plywood as well.

The key is to have a solid.. vertical grain cut.. something that will not fracture under stress and hold edge screws nice and solid.

I know I spent a good deal of time getting comfortable with my wood selection.. educating myself.. and its time well spent as you get confidence in the process.

Re: port orford Cedar for framing material?

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:32 am
by Oyster
Great post Iggy! I recall your initial entry into this process of building and for sure you did your homework.
All it takes is some reading and then take what you read and examine diffferent woods and planks. Wood is a facinating material and will actually in a measure way talk back to you too when you begin you building, some in a not so friendly way too. :wink: When picking the right stuff, it will smile back at you when choose the proper grains.

I know I spent a good deal of time getting comfortable with my wood selection.. educating myself.. and its time well spent as you get confidence in the process.

Re: port orford Cedar for framing material?

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:15 pm
by Caber-Feidh
Rated at 20+ years in direct ground contact

They make hot tubs out of it, how much better water-damage resistance can you get? It won't develop a raised/rough grain, or splinters after a good deep soaking. Light, not prone to shakes... pretty good qualities in a boat material. My only concern would be with fastener retention, and the necessity of predrilling every last nail/screw hole-that's really not all that fun, no matter how dedicated a person is.

Re: port orford Cedar for framing material?

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:19 pm
by Lowka53
:roll: according to what I read and posted take nails and screws well

Re: port orford Cedar for framing material?

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:11 pm
by sunflounder
I used some Port Orford I got a fairly good deal on for gluing up my little mast with some VG Fir instead of the unobtainable Sitka spurce. It was great, sweet smelling, forgivingly grained wood. It was softer than the DF but not bad, light, stiff and easy to drill.
I used guide dowels in the glue up and it went well. Of course I haven't actually sailed it yet ...
I think it would be fine for frames although it cost about the same as mahogany unless on special ( I got mine by careful selection of some leftover decking material at my local supplier).

DaveA