First Boat Build:White Oak v Dense Yellow Pine

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JCD
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First Boat Build:White Oak v Dense Yellow Pine

Postby JCD » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:29 pm

Good afternoon all,

I am working on my first boat build, the 15' Honker and am looking primarily at two lumber types for framing. I have found a supplier in North Georgia with both dense yellow pine and white oak, each kiln dried. The yellow pine is around a dollar and a half cheaper per BF. A couple of questions:

1. Which is easier to work with/has more play in making room for human error?
2. I am trying to do most of my work by hand, as I am a younger man with a more mentally involved occupation. Which one would be better in that regard?

Any advice will not go unheeded. Thanks!

"80% of success is showing up."
~Woody Allen

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: First Boat Build:White Oak v Dense Yellow Pine

Postby Bill Edmundson » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:56 pm

JDC

Welcome.

Southern Yellow Pine (SYP) is lighter and easier to work with. White Oak (WO) is stronger. But, for a boat this size it should not matter.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

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hoodman
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Re: First Boat Build:White Oak v Dense Yellow Pine

Postby hoodman » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:49 am

I'm using white oak in my build and really like it. Ease of working? As long as you have sharp tools oak is not any more difficult to work than pine in my opinion. In either case razor sharp chisels and planes will be your friends and dull powersaw blades will burn oak or pine.

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JCD
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Re: First Boat Build:White Oak v Dense Yellow Pine

Postby JCD » Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:31 am

Thanks for the warm welcome and advice! I am mostly likely going with the yellow pine for cost reasons as a first build.

On another note, is is possible to use two pieces of glued/fastened 1" boards in place of the 2" boards the plans call for? I know the wood glue of today often is stronger than the wood itself, and I'm just wondering if this is a bad idea. I'm recently married and for some strange reason, my wife has a hard time understanding the need to build a boat...

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: First Boat Build:White Oak v Dense Yellow Pine

Postby Bill Edmundson » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:26 am

JCD

We often laminate thicker members. They are actually stronger and more stable than solid pieces.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

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BarnacleMike
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Re: First Boat Build:White Oak v Dense Yellow Pine

Postby BarnacleMike » Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:33 am

Laminating two boards together is just fine. In fact, it's stronger, as Bill said, than a solid piece.

I'd recommend using marine epoxy over wood glue, however. In addition to being a fantastic adhesive, it will also help waterproof & protect the wood. It will be one of the more expensive components of your project, but well worth it. I like the System Three Silvertip epoxy, myself.

I think the Southern Yellow Pine is just fine. I've used it for several parts of my boat. As with any wood, though, you'll want to look for boards with as much vertically-oriented grain as possible, due to its better resistance to warping.

On strength of both the epoxy and the Southern Yellow Pine, I can give you a little example from my boat. It's still under construction, but I did finally get it out in the river last September. The sheers (the uppermost longitudinal boards) and the deck framing are all Southern Yellow Pine. The boards on the deck framing are only 3/4" thick. At all points, the deck framing is attached with epoxy only. The supporting pieces underneath them are attached with epoxy only, as well. When I was putting my boat back on the trailer, I had to crawl over my "deck" to keep from having to stand in the water. I put my full weight on the cross-joint of the deck framing (where the rope is attached in the photo). On a good day this year, I'm averaging 205. The point is, the epoxy and the 3/4" pine supported that weight with no problem whatsoever.

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Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
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Dave Grason
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Re: First Boat Build:White Oak v Dense Yellow Pine

Postby Dave Grason » Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:54 am

JCD wrote:...for some strange reason, my wife has a hard time understanding the need to build a boat...


This is a subject with which I personally am extremely sensitive. I want to address this and I don't want to offend or put anyone off in any way HOWEVER, this should be addressed in your new marriage.

For your sake, I hope this is not a prophecy of things to come. I hope that she loves you enough to support your dreams even if she doesn't understand them. I speak from experience. I was married to a woman that did not support anything I ever wanted to do.

Not only did my wife not understand my need to build a boat, she didn't care enough about me to even hear an explanation. In her little world, she was the majestic queen of all she surveyed. I was her servant and the boat was a huge distraction from my duty to her.

Ok, I know that sounds really edgy but think about it. I'm not kidding or joking around here. If your wife does not support your boat building endeavor and for whatever reason she begins to see the boat as a competitor, your boat will very likely NOT get built. And also, if she doesn't support THIS hobby, she will likely not support any other hobby. If she is anything like my wife, she will begin to derail your efforts behind your back. Head ship in your household will be up for grabs and you will lose before you ever realize there was even a competition for it. The boat project will only be a symptom of a much larger issue.

One very solid truth that was established in my many years of being forced to out piss my wife was made evident one day when she was belittling my pathetic little floaty toy. She emphatically stated that my boat project represented all that she had come to disrespect about me - mostly my refusal to grow up and be a real man. Toys were for children.

I very swiftly replied one of the most profound statements that I've ever made and I did it without even thinking about it. The words came out as smoothly and naturally as breathing. I said:

"I am a man and God wired my brain to be a man's brain. God wires men's brains to dream, to build, to create, to express artistic creativity in all they do. If God had not done this, humans would still be living in the stone age. So I think that YOU [she] is the one that needs to grow up because only an adult woman could understand this all important relationship between God and men."

Of course, it completely fell on deaf ears. So now, one can see how it came about that I recovered so quickly from the shock of my divorce. :lol: It was the finest gift she ever gave me.
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

jcallends
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Re: First Boat Build:White Oak v Dense Yellow Pine

Postby jcallends » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:22 am

JCD, Recently married and your wife does not understand why you want to build a boat? Face up to it and be prepared, it's a wife thing, and it's never going to stop. Next month I'll be married sixty years and my wife still questions why I build things, and the other thing, why do you spend the money?

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JCD
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Re: First Boat Build:White Oak v Dense Yellow Pine

Postby JCD » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:06 am

Awesome advice all. It sounds like the pine will be the path to go on with some epoxy work.

Dave, on the wife note, I greatly appreciate the wisdom you have to pass on and was not offended at all by the comment.I am very blessed to have a wife who supports everything I do and I meant the comment with all the humor of a diligent husband. :D She is just giving me a hard time about the boat because I usually have a number of small projects going on at the same time. I give her a hard time about her shopping just to look, so I have it coming down the pipe anyway. Haha

BarnacleMike, thanks for the advice on the epoxy. I figured the marine epoxy was going to be one of my more costly aspects, but I hadn't considered using it in place of wood glue. Will definitely have some on hand when starting the frames this spring.

Soloboat
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Re: First Boat Build:White Oak v Dense Yellow Pine

Postby Soloboat » Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:53 am

Very amusing, check out the archives Web letter # 83 article by Gayle and # 96 poem by Art Deco.speaks to getting her on board. :)
) Champagne dreams and wishes are possible on a beer budget. Just build the boat.
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Go sell crazy somewhere else we're all stocked up here."As Good As It Gets" Jack Nicholson.

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gap998
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Re: First Boat Build:White Oak v Dense Yellow Pine

Postby gap998 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:47 pm

One of the things about women not understanding men & their toys is well summed up in a comment by the Irish comedian Dylan Moran (I paraphrase): -

Women are born and in the course of their life go through various life stages - childhood, puberty, womanhood, motherhood, grandmotherhood, etc.
Men on the other hand are born with one hand on their penis, the other up their nose and they just get bigger!

But what Dave said about God & creativity is good too. :wink:
Gary

Planning a whole fleet, but starting with a Zip...I think.

"Just when you think you've made something idiot-proof, someone builds a better idiot!"

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hoodman
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Re: First Boat Build:White Oak v Dense Yellow Pine

Postby hoodman » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:22 am

I don't understand why someone, man or woman, would not understand a need to create something with your own hands. To take on a challenge greater than yourself so that you can grow to meet that challenge. I don't build a boat in spite of the difficulty and challenge, I built it because of that challenge. I have a need in my life to create and do things with my hands, as Dave said a God given need, which I do not fulfill with my job. Building a boat not only feeds my lifelong love of boating and all things water, but that creative desire also. Luckily my wife fully understands and supports. Her father has been restoring a Model A for 30 years and she doesn't want the boat to take that long.

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Gayle Brantuk
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Re: First Boat Build:White Oak v Dense Yellow Pine

Postby Gayle Brantuk » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:03 am

All I can say is that men are amazing creatures, and I mean that with all my heart! And Matt, I hope you don't mind if I quote you in an upcoming Newsletter and maybe on Facebook...

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hoodman
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Re: First Boat Build:White Oak v Dense Yellow Pine

Postby hoodman » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:02 pm

Don't mind at all, Gayle.

gdcarpenter
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Re: First Boat Build:White Oak v Dense Yellow Pine

Postby gdcarpenter » Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:48 pm

My wife says she was a 'widow' for the 2 years I spent building my ZIP. Then again , she asked me to get the outboard engine that I had rebuilt out of our living room, where it had stood for over 2 years. moral of the story, be careful what you ask for!
This is my first, last and only boat build.

http://www.gdzipbuild.blogspot.com


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