Best way to make frame templates

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Nova SS
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Best way to make frame templates

Post by Nova SS » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:01 am

I have a set of templates I made for a Tornado but I'm not totally happy with them. I'm looking for ideas/suggestions on how to make some accurate templates that I can use a shaper/router with to create the frame pieces. Any thoughts, suggestions, or musings appreciated.

thanks in advance. :)

lakeracer69
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Re: Best way to make frame templates

Post by lakeracer69 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:56 pm

Use brown masonite board from Home Depot. It's like 3/16" thick or so. Sands easy and holds up to the router bearing. I make "L" shaped pins out of 1/16" TIG wire. Drill through the pattern and work piece strategically. Use the pins to hold it there for routing. The finished part can then be pinned to another piece of stock for an identical part, or use the pattern again. Easy peasy.
As Conan the Barbarian says, " It's not how hard you can hit, it's how hard you can get hit and remain standing".

TomB
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Re: Best way to make frame templates

Post by TomB » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:28 pm

I use masonite too, 3/16" minimum. Thicker material works a little better with the router bit bearing. I use postage stamp sized pieces of double face carpet tape to stick the template to the stock. I also write notes on the templates, fastener sizes and location, set-up line, lines to show how other parts fit, notches etc.

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sproggy
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Re: Best way to make frame templates

Post by sproggy » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:39 am

Masonite doesn't exist in the UK - its nearest equivalent (hardboard) is available only in 1/8" thickness. So I've bought cheap 1/4" hardwood plywood to use as frame templates. I thought about MDF but the dust from cutting it is pretty toxic from what I understand.

Any reason why 1/4" ply wouldn't do the job? The only downside i can see is it's less easy to get a smooth edge than with one of the boards made from wood fibre. I guess that just means using more TPI on the bandsaw and going a bit slower.

TomB
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Re: Best way to make frame templates

Post by TomB » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:57 am

Plywood works. We use baltic birch plywood (no voids) for durable templates.

Masonite is a brand name hardboard, it is usually cheaper than plywood, no voids, generally flat, and no splitners :mrgreen: . I have tried using thinner material, but the template tends to slide into the space between the bit and the bearing taking a bite of the finished piece :x . I have not had much luck with MDF, too thick, too heavy, too brittle, and as you say too much dust.

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BayouBengal
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Re: Best way to make frame templates

Post by BayouBengal » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:46 am

Of course any material that will support the router guide will work. As for accuracy of the template, cut it as best you can and then use your long board sander to alleviate the shakiness out of the edge caused by not being able to cut a good smooth edge with a jigsaw or bandsaw (I can't). I would just keep dropping my template onto the full size pattern and taking off a little here or there with the longboard until it pretty well matched. You can also add a little here and there using thickened epoxy, but when it comes to that, it's actually easier to just cut another template. A new Tornado sounds exciting!

Nova SS
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Re: Best way to make frame templates

Post by Nova SS » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:39 am

I used plywood for the ones I did. Actually 3/4 thick Baltic birch. Then I used a jig saw to cut it close. I then used a couple of different hand held sanders to finish it. The ones I made match the patterns pretty darn close visually. The problem is this. Its next to impossible, or at least for me it is, when using a hand held sander to keep it perfectly square to the face of the plywood at all times. Due to this when you use them to route the frame piece out you get variations in the finished frame pieces caused by the bearing of the router bit ridding on material of various squareness to the face of the template. I'm wondering if an oscillating spindle sander would do what I am looking to do. Remake the patterns using my old technique but instead of the hand held sanders use an oscillating spindle sander?

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BayouBengal
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Re: Best way to make frame templates

Post by BayouBengal » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:48 am

Yep, understand the issue. Use 1/4" or 3/8" at thickest. Manually sand the edge with 80 grit paper attached to a firm backing such as a longboard sander. With a thin template such as 1/4", it's just as easy to sand manually as it is to use a rotary sander.

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sproggy
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Re: Best way to make frame templates

Post by sproggy » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:22 am

Nova SS wrote:The problem is this. Its next to impossible, or at least for me it is, when using a hand held sander to keep it perfectly square to the face of the plywood at all times. Due to this when you use them to route the frame piece out you get variations in the finished frame pieces caused by the bearing of the router bit ridding on material of various squareness to the face of the template. I'm wondering if an oscillating spindle sander would do what I am looking to do. Remake the patterns using my old technique but instead of the hand held sanders use an oscillating spindle sander?
I plan to use an oscillating belt sander (with a table) to do the edges of my templates. It seems like the easiest way to get a properly square and smooth edge. I reckon the sander will be useful throughout the project, not just for doing the templates, so can be justified. Having said that, I seem to find it possible to justify any new tool :lol:

Nova SS
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Re: Best way to make frame templates

Post by Nova SS » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:37 am

BayouBengal wrote:A new Tornado sounds exciting!

Ya a tornado should be a fun ride. I have the plans for it, the Rampage and the Rebel. I've made templates for the Reb and the Tornado. Actually even started building the reb at one point. Due to circumstances at the time though had to stop the build. I learned a lot from it though and that is when I discovered the short comings of my templates. The tornado is the boat I really want. So it will be its turn this time. Build it with a retro 60's feel/look to it. Zebrawood deck tuck and roll upholstery etc. I want to build it as light as I can possibly build it within reason of course.

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Best way to make frame templates

Post by Bill Edmundson » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:59 am

I didn't make templates. I started to. But, as much work as I was doing on them, I decided to just do the wood and be done with it. I was only making one. I copied the patterns of lofting schedule onto a sheet of ply. I rough cut the pieces then belt sanded to match the ply. I attached the pieces to the ply with wax paper under the joints. Almost all of the outside of the frame gets faired off anyway. Later, I used that sheet of ply for seats and cabinets.

I just depends on your purpose for the boat. Or, is the build the purpose of the boat?

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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Jimbob
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Re: Best way to make frame templates

Post by Jimbob » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:16 pm

I use 1/2 inch mdf. It is very easy to shape. At times, I use a pattern to make a second pattern. The main thing you need to do is to use something that is thick enough so that a flush trim router bit has something for the bearing to ride on. I use mdf patterns all the time, I stick them to the piece with double sided carpet tape. My dashboard template is made out of mdf which will be used for the final mahogany dashboard.

Jim
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BayouBengal
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Re: Best way to make frame templates

Post by BayouBengal » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:23 pm

Build it with a retro 60's feel/look to it. Zebrawood deck tuck and roll upholstery etc.
I like it :D

I rode in a Tornado at G6. I don't remember the guy's name who had it, but I know he was certifiably crazy. We had to be going every bit of 80 in that thing. I was never a religious man, but I suddenly became a devout Christian about half way through that trip.

BTW, don't pay any attention to Bill. Once I go over there to Birmingham and steal that pretty little red jig saw you see him holding, we'll quickly find out that he's not such a hotshot at cutting these curves anymore. :lol:

Nova SS
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Re: Best way to make frame templates

Post by Nova SS » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:30 pm

BayouBengal wrote:
Build it with a retro 60's feel/look to it. Zebrawood deck tuck and roll upholstery etc.
I like it :D

I rode in a Tornado at G6. I don't remember the guy's name who had it, but I know he was certifiably crazy. We had to be going every bit of 80 in that thing. I was never a religious man, but I suddenly became a devout Christian about half way through that trip.

BTW, don't pay any attention to Bill. Once I go over there to Birmingham and steal that pretty little red jig saw you see him holding, we'll quickly find out that he's not such a hotshot at cutting these curves anymore. :lol:

I suspect the Tornado you rode in belonged to Paul Miller. I know he took his tornado to at least one Gathering. Back in 03 when i first started kicking this idea around I corresponded with Paul a fair bit and picked his brain. I've never met him in person but she seemed like a very nice man who was always willing to answer my questions. He was a member here at one point as well. Not sure if he still comes around.

Nova SS
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Re: Best way to make frame templates

Post by Nova SS » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:34 pm

I want to thank everyone that offered up their advise. I have lots to think about before I decide which route I want to take. I still kind of like the idea of buy new tools though, Even if it's not truly needed for the task I tell the misses I needed it for.....lol

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