Glen-L.com

Hi,
I just got a 60 gallon air compressor from Santa and want to get a good sander to finish up my malahini. There are lots of options out there but was wondering if anyone could recommend a sander for woodwork. The auto body guys seem to think the dual action sander is the way to go but I wasnt sure this was the way to go for wood. Any thoughts?
thanks,

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Lawry (short for Lawrence)

pretty much get what you pay for in the cheapie board sanders, but there are many to choose from!
might be best to go that direction first
they vibrate you as much as the surface and will make your little compressor run continuously.
now that i am an ol fart and cant take that body workout anymore i run only this stuff...

have the dust extraction rather than sucking in some of that dust too. action is so good you can use from 40 to 1000 grits and get great results.
http://www.hutchinsmfg.com/

-Billy

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(insert witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

When it comes to the finishing there are only two choices. The air long board such as Billy pointed out or by hand.

DO NOT use a random orbital sander for your finish work. It looks pretty but leaves little swirl marks that you cannot see until you apply the finish. Take my word on it or look at my finish pics. I had to sand the finish off the boat 2x before I learned. Some people don't learn easily!!!

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Dave

My Riviera build - the Midnight Cry Project

Video of Midnight in Action
Blog

Few things in the world measure up to the thrill and satisfaction of boating in a boat that you built.

I have used the long board air sander on my build with good results. I finally bought the Hutchins sander. The cheap ones dont last long either. Ebay and Craiags list had some hutchinis for sale.

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John Amundsen
Monte Carlo
Winter Haven, FL

Maybe it will be done by G6 and maybe not.

Cant you just see Lawry eating the side outta his boat project with his new Santa Gifts?
Cry while you learn time!

I had a belt sander and still have a vibrator. They are great for fitting and shaping.
I don't think you can beat the Vibrator when it comes to knocking the tops down getting ready for the second coat.

But (I am both impatient and lazy) if I had a nice air sander I'd like to get away from Sandpaper and use some sort of abrasive plate that had Carbide "rocks" for heavy work. For finer work, an expanded carbide bladed metal screen.
Both of them you could blow out with air blast to keep them fresh.

Hey Lawry, long time no see. how is the boat coming along? Any new pics?

Actually, I've used my DA sander extensively on my boat with zero problems with swirl marks. But I do work all the way through the grits up to 220. Of course, for years I finished hardwood floors for a living and a DA sander was one of our fave tools in the quest for perfection. But there is also a secret to success. Keep a light shining across your work from the side and those swirl marks will become visible. It's the ones you miss that are exposed when the stain is applied. Also, the darker the stain, the more critical getting rid of the swirl marks are. If you're using genuine mahogany and no stain at all, you will have an easy time avoiding swirl marks on the final finish. I say that because I'm a true believer in using genuine mahogany with no stain. It just looks perfect and there's no need for the messy.

Now there are a couple of caviats. So far, on my Zip, I've only applied paint. Covering swirl marks under paint is a walk in the park because you're using a high build primer before you paint. I have NOT yet built the deck. But I know from experience with hardwood flooring exactly what I'm going to run into when I get there. So here's my process:

I use the long sander to level everything. Much like a belt sander, you need to keep this baby moving or you'll have some problems. If you have to spend a little extra time in one area, you should go back and try to give the rest of the brightwork equal time. That's because the more you sand wood, the lighter in color it will appear in the final finish. So if you spend extra time in one place, it will show. I finish any long board work with around 80 grit paper. Then I jump to the DA sander with 100, then 180 and finish with 220. You won't want to make a big jump in grits say like from 100 to 220. Remember to keep checking your work with a light shining in from the side to spot the any swirl marks. Finally, if you can get away without using a stain, by all means do so. I think that this is where spending a few extra coins for genuine mahogany is well worth the money.

BTW, for any of you that have been on this forum long enough to remember when Graham Knight was a really active member, you'll remember that Graham is a MAJOR boatbuilding talent. He HIGHLY recommended using gen mahogany with no stain whatsoever. His Squirt named "Reet Petite" was proof of his thought direction.

Welcome back Lawry, it's been a long time. I've actually thought about PMing you just to see if you were still alive.



(Psst, hey Lawry is a girl.)

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Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

I went back and found Graham's boat in the archives. Here is gen mahogany with no stain. The king plank I think he did with maple.

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Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

Gorgeous.

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Bill Higgins
Building a ..... as soon as I can clean out the garage.

Hi Guys!
It's nice to see that I was remembered! Probably because I am a girl.
Due to various things going on in life, my progress on my boat was slow for a while. I am almost done now though and I will post some pictures when I can. Right now I am at the stage where I need to do the sanding on the decking before I clear coat and then put on clear system three "paint". It is genuine mahogany and I don't plan to stain anything except the king plank and the covering boards on the side. The rest, including the dash, transom, and inside will be straight mahogany with clear coat. I have a lot of that to do. The bottom of the boat and topsides are painted (or will be painted). I also have to get my seats upholstered. My goal is to get it all done this spring so I can splash it in time for summer.
I am also working on restoring a 66 bug right now with my son so I was hoping to be able to get one sander to do both kinds of work. I am not a perfectionist so it seems like I may be able to get a dual action sander to cover me for now. For the future though I will have to invest in something more specific for wood.
Thanks for the comments/support and I promise to post some pictures soon,

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Lawry (short for Lawrence)

DA is what you want. It will do a good job on both the boat and bug. A long sanding board is handy for both too.

would avoid the inexpensive air tools for final finish work on the bright wood surfaces!
you can use the electric DA to get down to level your surface if you want. i am very careful to VACUUM THE DUST off leaving none of the previous grit on the surface.
if you do not you will grind the heavy grit into swirls on the surface.
Dave has sanded floors for a living. you do get the "feel" for how the machines are riding across the surface but that takes some experience to leave little or minor/no visible scratch marks. you will not get that finesse first time out on a new tool.
Would final block sand from 100 grit down by hand thou after the DA.
a little patience on this step and it will come out beautiful!
cant wait to see the pictures

-Billy

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(insert witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

I use a DA with my air compressor. It is a cheapo but it was the best cheapo at Harbor Freight - where I also got my long-board. What I found made a big difference in the finish is the quality of the sandpaper also. I use 3M sand paper with hook and loop backing that I buy at an auto-paint supply house. There are 50 sheets in a box for less than 20 bucks. So far it has been the cheapest route I have found. They last longer, don't get gummed up (also a cause of swirl marks) as often, are inexpensive, and leave me with a swirl-free finish.

Good Luck,

KB

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"I'm not trying to get it perfect. I'm trying to get it finished!"
Squirt Build: http://www.tubbytug.com/SquirtHome.html

The DA sanders do not leave swirls marks; it is a too coarse sandpaper that leaves the swirls. Work your way through the grits and you can do fine work with them.
I still like a hand long board for blocking & leveling. I also tried the Hutchins da air file, I hate it. pretty much useless for me.
Here is my favorite, and this is dandy on boats:
http://www.nationaldetroit.com/tools/to ... ?model=900
it is a geared 8" DA. autobody guys call it a 'mudhog', mud being bondo filler.

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God Bless our Troops; especially our Snipers

No doubt there are all levels of skill present on this forum. I don't pretend to be even out of the basement as far as that goes.

However, my experience using an orbital sander for the final prior to staining (dark) is accurate. I used the belt sander and 8" flex disc to rough fair and then worked my way all the way down to 320 grit with the orbital (and yes it was 3M paper). My result is that I had to completely sand off my stain job, not once, but twice due to swirl marks that were revealed when the stain washed caked dust out of the scratches. I hand sanded the 3rd time at 220 and 320 with the grain to get a clean job.

If a person is painting or finishing natural is probably is not an issue. However, with staining, I stand by my comments. Of course if one is skilled that is another story and it won't take much to be more skilled than I. And it goes without saying that any piece of equipment used wrongly or poorly will not give desire results.

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Dave

My Riviera build - the Midnight Cry Project

Video of Midnight in Action
Blog

Few things in the world measure up to the thrill and satisfaction of boating in a boat that you built.