Thinning epoxy for penetration?

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firecat1981
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Thinning epoxy for penetration?

Post by firecat1981 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:21 pm

I know cedar has natural oils that help with water resistance a little, but has anyone thinned epoxy so it penetrates further into the wood for better wear and protection? Someone asked me if they could add acetone to epoxy for this reason? I don't really plan on doing it but figured I would ask.

grumpyoldman
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Re: Thinning epoxy for penetration?

Post by grumpyoldman » Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:27 pm

I have no knowledge of thinning epoxy for penetration. If you feel the need to use something that pentrates the wood for rot protection, I would suggest using CPES. It is thin and flows into and around battens, floors, frames, etc. Just keep applying coats until the wood no longer absorbs, usually indicated by the wood staying wet as thirsty wood soaks it right up. then you can encapsulate witth epoxy, or not, as you choose.

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Bill CNC
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Re: Thinning epoxy for penetration?

Post by Bill CNC » Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:41 pm

DO NOT THIN EPOXY, You will weaken it considerably. It will soak in, just give it some time.

IF you thin epoxy, lord knows why, ... Denatured Alcohol= YES, ... Acetone = NO.

Would this be for gluing or encapsulating?
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Re: Thinning epoxy for penetration?

Post by TUGMYWAY » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:49 pm

I have tryed Zylene at 10 to 20%. It worked but :shock: I would stay with CPES! I ran out and needed to try to seal some stuff. It did soke in but not like CPES.

http://www.rotdoctor.com/products/cpes.html

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DaveLott
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Re: Thinning epoxy for penetration?

Post by DaveLott » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:28 pm

One answer - CPES
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Canoath
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Re: Thinning epoxy for penetration?

Post by Canoath » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:18 am

The CPES link is interesting.

I got two other links for you firecat. My experience is virtually zero, reading about how to build a boat seems to be my main hobby at the moment :roll: but from advice I've read, not only is epoxy weakened but the issue stems from solvents not evaporating or rising to the surface to evaporate before the epoxy cures. The following links are more to do with high solids epoxies versus solvent based epoxies but the first does make mention of thinning with solvents and to quote an extract;

Intuitively we would expect the low viscosity systems to provide maximum waterproofing, and many people add solvent to their resin to achieve this end.
According to a US Forest Products laboratory report (W. Feist & G Peterson, 1987) 100 percent solids epoxies are more than 90 percent effective in excluding moisture from timber over the long term, whereas solvent containing epoxies are only about 50% effective. The reason for this is that the solvent cannot evaporate from epoxy trapped inside the pores of the timber, and solvent retained in cured resin yields a rubbery mass with much reduced strength and resistance characteristics. Therefore the addition of solvent to make a thin saturating epoxy in fact, would appear to be counter-productive.


The more I read the more difficult the decisions seem to become. Thinning seems to be a general no-no but then there's proprietary additives to make a matched epoxy systems less viscous and penetrate more. I dunno, the second one does mention thinning with acetone but with precautions, ie an already sealed or non porous surface, plus specifies a volatile additive like acetone. So not for use on naked timber basically.
In the end it's the experience of others that speaks volumes.

So anyway, the links, more interesting stuff to cram in;

http://www.woodenboatfittings.com.au/pu ... ration.pdf

http://www.boatcraftnsw.com.au/botecote ... alysis.pdf
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firecat1981
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Re: Thinning epoxy for penetration?

Post by firecat1981 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:07 am

Thanks kids, looks like a general no.

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Bergy
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Re: Thinning epoxy for penetration?

Post by Bergy » Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:58 am

You might want to check this article.

http://www.epoxyworks.com/14/index14.html
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firecat1981
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Re: Thinning epoxy for penetration?

Post by firecat1981 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:56 am

After reading several articles I will not be thinning the epoxy with solvent. However I think I will try to thin using heat in some spots. I'll warm the surface with a heat gun, not too hot, and roll on my resin. I'll probably do a sample piece first, if I do I'll post the results.

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Re: Thinning epoxy for penetration?

Post by Lowka53 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:47 pm

:lol: I think heating will cause it to cure faster :roll:
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firecat1981
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Re: Thinning epoxy for penetration?

Post by firecat1981 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:16 pm

You don't heat the epoxy, you heat the surface slightly above room temp, but not higher than 120 degrees. It's not hot enough to affect the curing, but does aid in penetration. I tried it today on some areas and it seems to really work well, where I didn't heat the epoxy did not soak in as well. When I heated the surface soaked up the resin like a sponge. I'll use this technique again, it's an added step and probably not really needed, but it can't hurt.

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pauloman
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Re: Thinning epoxy for penetration?

Post by pauloman » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:15 am

cpes is 69 % cheap solvent and 31% cheap epoxy. - more of a solvent thinned with epoxy than the other way around.

the epoxy chemists I deal with professionally generally say thinning up to about 10% is fine. Above that it weakens the epoxy, which is fine if not being used for structural applications. Say, sealing some plywood, getting a smooth finish coat over existing epoxy. Etc. Two part poly coatings (LPU coatings) pretty much always use a highly solvent thinned epoxy as the recommended primer.

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Re: Thinning epoxy for penetration?

Post by jcallends » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:17 am

When you heat a surface and then apply epoxy you are really heating the epoxy via contact heat transfer. Heating uncured epoxy is a double edged sword, not only do you reduce the viscosity of the mix for better penetration you also shorten the time to reach the "B" stage where it is unworkable although this should not be a problem where penetration is the desired result. One method I have used successfully is to apply epoxy to the surface where I want penetration and then heat the epoxy with a heat gun.

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Re: Thinning epoxy for penetration?

Post by GINGER » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:01 am

http://www.adtechplastics.com/pc-1424-2 ... ystem.aspx i often use this Epoxy on the inside of Jets or V- drives ( flow coating ) to achieve that west coast look which also has U-V qualties ,and might i mention that infusion resin is somewhat watery or thinner opposed to conventional ( syrup ) style resin's which i feel that most of you will find is a very workable resin for something of this nature .

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