Encapsulating confusion.

Problems, how to use. Also see: "EPOXY", in the left-hand column of the Home page.

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rocker
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Encapsulating confusion.

Post by rocker » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:58 am

I'm trying to decide what to use for the encapsulation of my TNT.I see epoxy,poly,gelcoat,tabletop clear stuff ($30.00 per gallon).Don't want to start any controversy but Clarkcraft has an interesting product for $130.00 for 2 gallons. I'm disabled so I really have to watch my bucks but I don't want to use the wrong stuff.
What will work and what won't?
Thanx for any help. :?: :roll: :?
Last edited by rocker on Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lowka53
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Re: Encapsulating confusion.

Post by Lowka53 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:02 am

you don't want poly. marine grade epoxy is what you want :wink:
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DaveLott
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Re: Encapsulating confusion.

Post by DaveLott » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:09 am

This is a rather easy answer.

Many are now using CPES first. It is very thin and watery. So a little goes a long ways. Apply three coats or until the wood will not soak up any more. Be sure to stain first for this seals the stain and fills the wood pores. Then 2-3 coats of regular epoxy. While there are several brands of epoxy, we prefer to use the product sold by Glen-L since they are our great sponsor for this forum.

Untl CPES came along, folks used the regular epoxy and it worked just fine.

Some even use only some type of enamel paint for the bilge to seal the wood. Just my personal opinion but if you desire to keep your boat for many years, please spend an extra few dollars and really seal the wood not just cover it.

What type of finish do you want : clear or painted?
Dave

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rocker
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Re: Encapsulating confusion.

Post by rocker » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:45 am

Gonna be painted or maybe gelcoat if I can figure out what gelcoat really is.
What is CPES?

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DaveLott
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Re: Encapsulating confusion.

Post by DaveLott » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:30 am

Clear Penetrating Epoxy produced by Smith's

It is essentially a modified epoxy that soaks deeply into the pores of the wood. It costs about $60 per quart and will do you whole boat inside and out.

If you plan on painting or glassing over then get yourself some CPES from Jamestown Distributors. Get yourself an organic mask for the stuff stinks. Mix up very small batches and roll it own dry. Do not let it run for it will pick up and carry any stain you have on the boat. If you are painting then no big deal.

Cover the boat inside and out very quickly for the stuff evaporates FAST. In about 2-3 hours you can apply 3 coats per day. The wood will soak it up until every pore if full. Once the wood has soaked all it can soak the CPES will leave a light shine on the surface. You are now completely sealed from anything. If you ever cut into the wood or drill a hole be sure to seal the fresh exposed wood with the CPES also.

You can varnish, fiberglass or paint directly over the top of this with no problems. Since it is so watery it will get down into every crack and crevice and really seal the wood permanently.

It is by far the best method currently available to seal wood from water damage bar nothing.
Dave

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Video of Midnight in Action

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rocker
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Re: Encapsulating confusion.

Post by rocker » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:36 am

Thanx Dave! I'll do that. Can gelcoat be used instead of epoxy or should I encapsulate with epoxy then gelcoat?I'm looking for some added strength.I plan on using 6oz cloth on the bottom.

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Re: Encapsulating confusion.

Post by lakeracer69 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:55 am

I would suggest using Poxy shield for the fiberglass build up. You won't be doing gelcoat at all. Gelcoat outside of a mold is very difficult to do for the amateur.
As Conan the Barbarian says, " It's not how hard you can hit, it's how hard you can get hit and remain standing".

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rocker
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Re: Encapsulating confusion.

Post by rocker » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:19 am

I'll do that! I just thought that if I used tinted (colored) gelcoat,I would'nt have to paint.

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jprice
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Re: Encapsulating confusion.

Post by jprice » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:34 am

Gelcoat is best left to the pros. Form what I've read, you can't just spray it on like paint.
Anyway, there's lots of quality marine paints that will give you an excellent finish. You don't need gelcoat.

I'll be spraying interlux VC peformance epoxy later today (called epoxy, but it's still a paint). I'll let you know how that goes. If it's anything like the reviews say, it should look just like gelcoat.

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rocker
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Re: Encapsulating confusion.

Post by rocker » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:37 am

Thanx Jeff! Please let me know.I'll be spraying also. :)

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Re: Encapsulating confusion.

Post by Paul Kinneberg » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:50 am

DaveLott wrote:Clear Penetrating Epoxy produced by Smith's

It is essentially a modified epoxy that soaks deeply into the pores of the wood. It costs about $60 per quart and will do you whole boat inside and out.

If you plan on painting or glassing over then get yourself some CPES from Jamestown Distributors. Get yourself an organic mask for the stuff stinks. Mix up very small batches and roll it own dry. Do not let it run for it will pick up and carry any stain you have on the boat. If you are painting then no big deal.

Cover the boat inside and out very quickly for the stuff evaporates FAST. In about 2-3 hours you can apply 3 coats per day. The wood will soak it up until every pore if full. Once the wood has soaked all it can soak the CPES will leave a light shine on the surface. You are now completely sealed from anything. If you ever cut into the wood or drill a hole be sure to seal the fresh exposed wood with the CPES also.

You can varnish, fiberglass or paint directly over the top of this with no problems. Since it is so watery it will get down into every crack and crevice and really seal the wood permanently.

It is by far the best method currently available to seal wood from water damage bar nothing.
Dave on a stitch and glue boat can I use CPES to seal the plywood edges prior to stitching and epoxy assembly? I have read that encapsulating prior to stitching and subsequent epoxy fillets does not provide as good of connection as using fillets on bare wood. Thoughts?

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Bill CNC
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Re: Encapsulating confusion.

Post by Bill CNC » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:52 am

Scott,

I'm against the use of penetrating epoxy's, the epoxy is not as strong as the un-thinned epoxy's due to the high solvent content. Besides, it will only penetrate to the first glue layer in plywood. Epoxy doesn't need very much penetration like water or solvent based glue do.

Here is a GREAT article on it, ... http://www.epoxyproducts.com/penetrating4u.html

Myself, ... I use West Systems and their mixing fillers. Glen-L's stuff I hear is great, but I'm used to West Systems, ... I've been using it for more years than I can remember at home and work.
Bill

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rocker
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Re: Encapsulating confusion.

Post by rocker » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:23 pm

Thanx Bill.I guess if anyone would know,it would be you if you use it everyday.Or have the fumes just gone to your head? LOL :lol:

scottinwv
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Re: Encapsulating confusion.

Post by scottinwv » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:05 pm

If the wood is warm, when it cools it will pull thin epoxy into the pores deeper. The opposite occurs if you coat the wood or plywood then the temperature warms, the wood/ply will off-gas and you'll see bubbles in the epoxy. If you warm the epoxy before mixing it will be thinner. I put the two jugs at a right angle to each other and put a worklight with a 150 watt bulb in front of them. If left there for a couple hours the epoxy will be a lot thinner than if used at room temperature. It works somewhat like thinned epoxy.

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Bill CNC
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Re: Encapsulating confusion.

Post by Bill CNC » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:04 pm

I do the same thing, depending on the room temperature with one difference. I use lights to heat up the a substrate when needed but I put the containers of epoxy in hot water, around 115-120*. It's a lot faster and I can control the temperature down to the degree. Just let them sit in the sink.

I let the water run about 1/4 open and the drain about the same. I can keep a constant supply of hot water flowing/draining and adjust the temp buy adding or subtracting with the cold water faucet until I get the proper temp. Depending on the amount of epoxy in their containers, if their more than half full, ... I give 'em a shake every couple of minutes to get it all warmed up and not just the bottom of the can.
Bill

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