epoxy

Problems, how to use. Also see: "EPOXY", in the left-hand column of the Home page.

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mike961
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epoxy

Postby mike961 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:46 pm

Good afternoon, I'm just getting started on my first build a Super Spartan. I've looked at the MAS and west systems for epoxy. Is either one better than the other?, Thanks mike.

gdcarpenter
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Re: epoxy

Postby gdcarpenter » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:14 pm

GlenL also has epoxy which I used and it was fine. Were I to ever build another boat (NOT) I would likely go with a 'clear' epoxy. Most epoxies 'darken' the wood with an 'Amber' tint, wish I had used clear epoxy on my deck so my White Oak would have finished lighter. Some folks have 'sensitivities' to epoxies and some epoxies are less irritating if that's a concern. If one were clearly better there likely would not be so many to choose from.
This is my first, last and only boat build.

http://www.gdzipbuild.blogspot.com

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Bob Perkins
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Re: epoxy

Postby Bob Perkins » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:02 am

If you are using epoxy as glue - There is very little difference from one to the other. They are all stronger than the wood you are joining.

As far as usability:
West is a pain because of the 5:1 ratio. So you have to use pumps and if they fail or you miss-fire, the ratio is off..

I prefer the 2:1 ratio epoxies because I can use a digital kitchen scale to weigh batches. Never a bad mix and I always get the amount I want and the math is simple.
(MAS, System 3 are 2:1)

For Epoxy that you can see through glass and varnish (bright work) - MAS is the best - their thin resin wets out better than anyone and the glass disappears. I've had excellent success with MAS for glassing and varnishing. Nearly all the Canoe and Kayak guys use MAS for the clear finish.

HTH
Last edited by Bob Perkins on Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bob Perkins

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: epoxy

Postby Bill Edmundson » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:19 am

I agree with Bob. Almost no difference for glue-up.

I use MAS with Slow Hardener for two reasons. First, I'm less sensitive to it. Second, it does not develop amine blush. Blush is a waxy surface which must be cleaned off.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

mike961
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Re: epoxy

Postby mike961 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:25 am

Thanks for the help MAS it is , Mike.

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: epoxy

Postby Bill Edmundson » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:50 am

Poxy Shield and Poxy Grip are good, too. But, I have a sensitivity issue also. East System works fine. But, it really gets me. Matter of fact I have some East somebody can have.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

bobinpowayca
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Re: epoxy

Postby bobinpowayca » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:54 pm

Howdy, I'm building Geronimo and finishing up the hull. Could you tell me what MAS is? I like the idea of no amine blush, years ago on the Glen-L 17 I had a delamination issue and I think it may have been amine blush. I plan on putting on two encapsulation coats before the glass and it may be weeks between applications. Maybe only one encapsulation coat because I'll be putting at least a couple over the glass? Thanks, Bob
Bob
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Built the Glen-L 17 (1988), Geronimo under construction (2013)
PBR support (1968)

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jamundsen
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Re: epoxy

Postby jamundsen » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:25 pm

MAS is a brand name. I've used it as well as Glen L.
John Amundsen
Monte Carlo
Lakeland,Fl

Work tends to get in the way of boat building

cusoak
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Re: epoxy

Postby cusoak » Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:21 am

Well here is my 2cents worth.
I used West system epoxy on the advice of a company that restores antique wooden boats.
Yes it does require the use of there pump system ,but how much easier could that be just pump the right number of each and mix and you are ready to go. No need for a scale.
If you want a clear finish then use 105 Epoxy resin and 207 Special Clear hardner.
You will get a non amine blushing clear finish.
Use their foam roller to apply.
I used this product on me Zip build.
The other thing is that might find it in your town and not have to pay shipping.

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Bob Perkins
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Re: epoxy

Postby Bob Perkins » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:15 am

cusoak wrote:Yes it does require the use of there pump system ,but how much easier could that be just pump the right number of each and mix and you are ready to go. No need for a scale.


I used West and pumps years ago. If you are working on a project and using them all the time, no problem. When pumps go unused for 6 months - they gum up and then they get thrown away and replaced. If I remember right, they are nearly $20 a set?

With a inexpensive digital scale - I can measure out less than an ounce or more than 10 oz. easily. If you switch it to grams its even simpler. ex: 100 grams of resin, 50 grams of harder. (5:1 is much simpler in grams too 100 grams of resin, 20 grams of hardener - I'd still do the math on a calculator since I tend to pour resin based on how much it looks like I need for the task at hand)

I'm fortunate enough to have a heated shop (56 deg) in the winter. The epoxy is still pretty thick. Pouring works better than pumping then too. Colder shops would have to also keep the materials warm.

West makes very good epoxy - the only reason I do not use it is because of the 5:1 ratio.
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Bob Perkins

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bobinpowayca
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Re: epoxy

Postby bobinpowayca » Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:51 pm

Well I guess I better check out MAS. I've been using Poxy-Grip on my Geronimo for over a year with no problems; I like the way it makes a nice mayonaise like paste and the 1:1 ratio. I just got back from urgent care. Got so carried away getting on that last forward panel last Friday that I got it all over my t-shirt and pants, so next day got the severe itchies; guess you'd say I got "sensitized" so I'm on a course of prednisone. My own fault; next time quality elbow length gloves and apron.
I like what Bill said about being less sensitive to MAS, and that it has no amine blush, if it's as good as poxy grip otherwise. Good info. Bob
Bob
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Built the Glen-L 17 (1988), Geronimo under construction (2013)
PBR support (1968)

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vupilot
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Re: epoxy

Postby vupilot » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:12 pm

The MAS will require powdered additives for structural glue ups just like West System. So I like to use the Glen-L poxy-grip for gluing and MAS for fiberglassing and encapsulation. That way I don't have to mess with the additives in anything.

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Gayle Brantuk
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Re: epoxy

Postby Gayle Brantuk » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:50 am

You can get Poxy-Shield & Poxy Grip, SystemThree and MAS all from Glen-L!
[url][/http://www.boatdesigns.com/Epoxy-Fillers/departments/21/url]

slug
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Re: epoxy

Postby slug » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:59 pm

I've been using MAS since they came out with their Lo Tox hardener. For epoxy, such as it is, I can't/wouldn't use anything else. I became sensitised using West (IMO one of the worst for allergic reactions with no attempt to improve upon) and would not be able to build the last two boats without it. I use their cheap pumps for small doses, and automotive paint measure cups for larger doses. Lots of open time also. You can thin up to 10% with denatured alcohol, and if it thickens sitting on the shelf too long, set the container in hot water for a while.

Doug


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