Whats with the bubbles?

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jeff k
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Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:51 pm

Bubbles everywhere!

Post by jeff k » Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:57 pm

Hi Boat builders,
Building a Squirt and I'm at fiberglassing the hull. I coated the ply first with CPES thinned 50% with acetone per the manufacture's recommendation.
( total boat systems penetrating epoxy ) Scuffed with 120 grit to knock down the fuzz and high spots. I then did the fiberglass cloth ( 7oz ) from GlenL with MAS lowtox epoxy on a recommendation from Bill Edmundson on the forum. Nothing but bubbles in the epoxy. I used a 1/8" foam roller for the epoxy roll out on the fiberglass. When dry. I applied a second coat of the MAS epoxy with the same type roller. Again...nothing but bubbles rolling out the second coat. When dry I sanded the first 2 coats out with 120 grit to knock down all the bubbles. Third coat...I went to Sherwin Williams and bought the BEST foam hot dog roller they had. A 6" in black foam...very pricey. Third coat, NOTHING BUT BUBBLES. What is the deal here? What roller do I need to get a smooth coat with NO bubbles? This is making me nuts! Any help?
This boat project is destroying my wallet, But it is enriching my soul.

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hoodman
Posts: 1907
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Location: Lafayette, IN

Re: Bubbles everywhere!

Post by hoodman » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:29 pm

Are you whipping air into the epoxy when you are stirring? Are you getting bubbles right away or are they showing up later? When I was doing encapsulation of my frames I had bubbles in the first coat from putting it on in the morning and after temps warmed up some air came up through the wood. I think you want to try to apply in dropping temps.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

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Roberta
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Location: East Troy, Wisconsin

Re: Whats with the bubbles?

Post by Roberta » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:39 pm

You might be getting a gassing out from the penetrating coat you applied. It may need to fully cure (two weeks) before putting another product over it. When you put one MFG's products over another's, there might be some incompatibility unless you wait for the first product to fully cure. Or you are overworking the resin creating bubbles. Did you try tipping the resin with a foam brush to remove the bubbles? Or are they forming later during the curing process? If later, then it is gassing from the first product.

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

jeff k
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:51 pm

Re: Whats with the bubbles?

Post by jeff k » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:48 pm

This is happening as soon as I roll it on. The CPES was 5 weeks cure time before I applied the MAS product. That and it was a few days after I scuffed it before the MAS. I will try tipping. That seems like a sound idea. Hey, bye the way Roberta, we are somewhat neighbors. I live in Menomonee Falls, WI. I saw your Zip on craigslist. Wanted to buy it so bad... But, I want to retire soon so I had to pass. Did you sell it yet?
This boat project is destroying my wallet, But it is enriching my soul.

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Whats with the bubbles?

Post by Bill Edmundson » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:00 pm

Jeff

I only use a brush and push the resin into the cloth. Roll and tip may be an option. I don't know what is causing the bubbles. When you do roll, and I do it with paint, it breaks almost all the bubbles. I just don't know I haven't had much of the problems.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

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Roberta
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Location: East Troy, Wisconsin

Re: Whats with the bubbles?

Post by Roberta » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:41 am

You'll have to stop by some time or if I get a chance, I'll stop by. The Zip is still for sale.

I used 4" hot dog rollers from HD and System Three General purpose resin with slow hardener to roll the cloth on the Torpedo. You need to squeeze the resin through the weave and use care not to over roll or move the cloth once it is down. Get the weave filled so it becomes transparent, but don't over do it and try to put too much on. It takes about 3-4 coats to fill the weave completely.

Roberta :D
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Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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Andy Garrett
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Location: Nampa, Idaho

Re: Whats with the bubbles?

Post by Andy Garrett » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:46 am

Prep sounds good.
Product is high quality.
Rollers are correct.

Environmental condition? :?:


It would be hard to imagine that product compatibility or out gassing would still be an issue after 5 weeks, but I suppose it's possible...
Andy Garrett

Perhaps the slowest Zip build in Glen-L history...

Big Dog
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:13 pm

Re: Whats with the bubbles?

Post by Big Dog » Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:28 pm

Bubbles can occur in any epoxy from high heat or direct sunlight on a warm day. Lots of bubbles can pop up on a hot day with direct sunlight. Use a slow hardner on hot or warm days and try to work inside or in the shade and not in direct sun light. Of course mix with a mixing stick and not with an electric drill paint mixer that may push some more air in to the epoxy.

I would not use a mix that calls for thinning with acetone unless it is for a penetrating base coat on plain wood. Acetone significantly weakens the resin.

You could try to hit the bubble area with a dry sponge roller after a few minutes to smooth the bubbles. Just an idea.

For application I don't recommend using a roller by itself. Better to roll and tip with a brush for resin only coats -- If going over fresh cloth I brush on and then squeegee or push it into the cloth with a flexible plastic or metal scrapper / applicator.

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