Decoration/Structural Hull skinning

Fiberglassing over plywood and one-off fiberglass methods. See: "Boatbuilding Methods", in the left-hand column of the Home page.

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MerlinElMago
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Decoration/Structural Hull skinning

Post by MerlinElMago »

Hi,
as I am still waiting for my plans to arrive I have made some research on materials. I have been reading this forum extensively and I have found a thread from 2009 where somebody was asking about carbon fiber for the hull so I started thinking about that. I understand that times have changed and that maybe it could be a ( more expensive but viable ) alternative. I have to stress out, that if I'd go for carbon fiber, it would be only for the looks.
First a question (as I don't have received the documentation yet, I simply don't know)... how many layers of glass fiber is normally used on a hull and how thick (or dense) should the cloth be? As far as I have read, there is only one layer of glass fiber and about three coats of epoxy, but maybe I'm wrong.
Would it be possible to substitute that one layer of glass fiber with one layer of carbon fiber? I think that from what I understood, carbon fiber is stronger but less flexible than glass fiber. As I do not have an equipment for vacuum bagging, I'd lay the carbon fiber exactly the same I'd lay the glass fiber (if I can do it that way). So I perfectly understand that due to the amount of epoxy used, I'd have absolutely no weight advantage...as I said before, this would only be for the looks.
Looking at some more threads in the forum, I also found somebody talking about placid boatworks whose kanoes look absolutely gorgeous:

Image

I think that this must be "Diolen" cloth, but I couldn't find anything about Diolen, apart from being similarly priced as the carbon cloth. I'd like to know the same things about it... Can I get away with just a layer and some epoxy coats on a hull, or do I have to lay multiple layers?

That's all for now. Thanks in advance for answering.
Best regards
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Starting my Squirt Project

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Bluesman
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Re: Decoration/Structural Hull skinning

Post by Bluesman »

I believe you need to vacuum bag carbon and heat the whole thing or you won't get proper resin penetration, at least that's the way I understand it. This is partly why it's so expensive, the vacuum chambers they use in a production setting aren't cheap.
Tahoe - 21' under construction

LeClaire, IA - Birthplace of "Buffalo" Bill Cody and home of the American Pickers on The History Channel

hoodman
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Re: Decoration/Structural Hull skinning

Post by hoodman »

You can get the cloth here:
http://store.raka.com/3k2x2twill13x13co ... x50in.aspx

Maybe call and ask them if they have a recommendation on how to apply it.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

JimmY
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Re: Decoration/Structural Hull skinning

Post by JimmY »

What type of boat are you planning to build?

Carbon will wet out just like fiberglass cloth, and you shouldn't need any special equipment. It may need more epoxy to fully wet out. Using Peel-ply or vacuum bagging will help keep the epoxy weight down.

Fiberglass is added to add abrasion resistance to the bottom of the hull and not strength. A lot of builders will only glass the bottom and a few inched up the sides. Carbon will make the hull stiffer and I'm not sure on abrasion resistance. If you are going for looks, you could glass and paint the bottom, and then apply carbon from the chine up the sides. If it is a canoe, you could use carbon on the whole hull, and then add strips of fiberglass cloth along the keel for abrasion (the glass will wet out clear).

Be careful with the cured epoxy saturated carbon. You need to watch out for splinters and carbon dust.
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

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MerlinElMago
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Re: Decoration/Structural Hull skinning

Post by MerlinElMago »

What type of boat are you planning to build?
A Squirt (see signature)
Fiberglass is added to add abrasion resistance to the bottom of the hull and not strength. A lot of builders will only glass the bottom and a few inched up the sides. Carbon will make the hull stiffer and I'm not sure on abrasion resistance. If you are going for looks, you could glass and paint the bottom, and then apply carbon from the chine up the sides.
If so, then I think the Diolan would be the better choice as it is often combined with glass fiber to improve it's abrasion resistance.
Best regards
Image

Starting my Squirt Project

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MerlinElMago
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Re: Decoration/Structural Hull skinning

Post by MerlinElMago »

I just found a little explanation on Diolen fibres...
Diolen cloth is a high tenacity manmade yarn with characteristics similar to aramid fibres. Although not as high performance as aramids (like Kevlar) diolen reinforcement does offer excellent elongation-to-break properties at a low cost and so is a popular choice for products which need to be impact resistant such as canoes, kayaks, life rafts etc. Innegra is a high modulus polypropylene fibre that can be used independently or in conjunction with other fibres to provide weight reduction, excellent levels of impact resistance and damage tolerance. Innegra also has a very low density and is hydrophobic meaning it is an excellent choice for the leisure market.
So reading this, I understand that I could substitute the layer of fiberglass entirely with the Diolen mat or to lay it over the glass layer...

What do you guys think?
Best regards
Image

Starting my Squirt Project

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Decoration/Structural Hull skinning

Post by Bill Edmundson »

If you are going to paint, this stuff is really tough! It goes down a little milky and is difficult to cut.

https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/u ... o?pid=4214

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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