"cloudy" areas in the epoxy

Fiberglassing over plywood and one-off fiberglass methods. See: "Boatbuilding Methods", in the left-hand column of the Home page.

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Bob Maskel
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Re: "cloudy" areas in the epoxy

Post by Bob Maskel » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:54 pm

This is an old post, but I just glassed one side of my Malahini last night and this morning it looks just like this. In my case I am thinking that there was a little bit of "foam" in the epoxy created by rolling back and forth with the roller. I rolled epoxy on and squeegeed it around so I know there was enough epoxy underneath. On some spots that were clear to begin with they turned milky after repeated rolling...I was REALLY hoping they would be gone this morning but they were not. I am going to try the other side...if it turns out well i will sand off the glass on the first side and re-do it. If it turns out the same way I will find a color chart and pick out a nice paint. :(
Bob
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Bill Edmundson
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Re: "cloudy" areas in the epoxy

Post by Bill Edmundson » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:06 pm

Bob

I've alway used the dry method and use a Brush. After about 20 minutes I go back with a squeege to get excess out and to make sure the fabric is in good contact with the wood.

See you in September.

Bill
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Bob Maskel
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Re: "cloudy" areas in the epoxy

Post by Bob Maskel » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:15 pm

Yeah, I'm not sure what happened but that foam from the roller is my best guess. I did it the same as I did the Sea Knight and that turned out fine, although with the lighter plywood maybe I just didn't see it. I'd really like to have the wood visible on the sides so I will try again :cry: . I'm not looking forward to sanding off 14' of glass though and then trying to re-dye the wood to match...we will see I guess...

Looking forward to September!!!!!
Bob
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Bob Maskel
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Re: "cloudy" areas in the epoxy

Post by Bob Maskel » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:03 pm

Bill Edmundson wrote:Bob

I've alway used the dry method and use a Brush. After about 20 minutes I go back with a squeege to get excess out and to make sure the fabric is in good contact with the wood.

See you in September.

Bill
Hi Bill, I tried the other side with the brush and the same thing started to happen...as I brushed, it started to get cloudy...almost like a real dense foam...and afterwards I squeegeed it. The excess epoxy that came off with the squeegee cured white instead of the clear amber color it is when it is not agitated by a roller or brush.
Cloudy.JPG
Cloudy2.JPG
Excess.JPG
I got lots of sanding to do to get it all off now...fortunately only about 12' of each side will (hopefully) be bright, so I don't have to get it off the whole hull!!!

I am looking forward to September!! We doin' a lunch run to Chattanooga Thursday again????????????? You will have a boat there this year!
Bob
Sea Knight on the water/Malahini in progress

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Bill CNC
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Re: "cloudy" areas in the epoxy

Post by Bill CNC » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:50 pm

Bob,

How old is your resin and is their a possibility the cap was left off for an extended period of time? It looks as if your epoxy is contaminated with moisture (foaming). Try a second source of resin and see if you have the same results. You can use a test piece of wood and on one half use your problematic resin, and on the other half use a different source of resin. Just put a tape line separating the two sides on the same piece of wood, that way they should be the exact same.

Bill
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Bill Edmundson
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Re: "cloudy" areas in the epoxy

Post by Bill Edmundson » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:00 pm

Bob

I just don't know.

Bill
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Bob Maskel
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Re: "cloudy" areas in the epoxy

Post by Bob Maskel » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:06 pm

Bill CNC wrote:Bob, How old is your resin and is their a possibility the cap was left off for an extended period of time? It looks as if your epoxy is contaminated with moisture (foaming). Try a second source of resin and see if you have the same results. You can use a test piece of wood and on one half use your problematic resin, and on the other half use a different source of resin. Just put a tape line separating the two sides on the same piece of wood, that way they should be the exact same. Bill
Hi, the resin is probably a year old, but had never been opened until I was ready to fiberglass. I also stirred it per the recommendations since it sat a while. I was careful to not put air bubbles in the resin either during stirring initially or while mixing with the hardener. The more I went over with the roller or brush the more "foamy" it got. The roller and brush were new too. I'm going to try and sand it off and then use the System 3 laminating resin...Gayle said it is compatible with the Poxy Shield and will stick...I thought that might be thinner and clearer than the PS. I used the PS to glass the Sea Knight and didn't have an issue. Who knows...one of those things!

If this is the worst problem that I have during this, I will be very satisfied. I still can't get over how much more "stuff" is causing me little issues compared to my first one. Good thing I didn't build the second one first :shock: , or there might not have been a second one!! :D
Bob
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vupilot
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Re: "cloudy" areas in the epoxy

Post by vupilot » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:47 pm

Bob, your problem is very interesting as it appears very different from any other fiberglassing issue we have seen here. The bottom ply looks so nice I cant help but wonder if it is a reaction to the stain on the sides? Anything else different about the two sections? Can you fiberglass a piece of scrap of the same ply that is bare for comparison sake.

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Bob Maskel
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Re: "cloudy" areas in the epoxy

Post by Bob Maskel » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:34 pm

vupilot wrote:Bob, your problem is very interesting as it appears very different from any other fiberglassing issue we have seen here. The bottom ply looks so nice I cant help but wonder if it is a reaction to the stain on the sides? Anything else different about the two sections? Can you fiberglass a piece of scrap of the same ply that is bare for comparison sake.
Hi, just a quick update...the epoxy got foamy when I did the bottom also, and there was no dye (water-based aniline dye) on it there...I squeegeed it on the flat areas and it went on and stayed clear as can be...on the edges I used a brush to force it in and it got full of bubbles and turned milky again. The only thing I can think of is the combination of temp and humidity made it susceptible to foaming up a little...it didn't foam by itself, only when I worked it with the brush or roller, and not with the squeegee. It has been in the mid-upper 80's with dewpoints in the mid-upper 60's so it has been hot and humid to work in, and I kept the resin and hardener inside in the A/C until I mixed it. I used plastic paint tray liners when I rolled it on and I was able to pull the cured epoxy out and take a few photos. In the photos you can see the milky epoxy in the tray that came back in after I rolled or brushed...the color is different and the bubbles are clearly visible. I guess maybe a cooler, drier day and less "working" it with the roller may have made a difference. I just went and bought a ton of 7" sanding discs and will plan on spending the next 50 hours getting the stuff of the sides :shock: ...there is no question about the bond...that stuff is on there!!
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Bob
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Bill CNC
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Re: "cloudy" areas in the epoxy

Post by Bill CNC » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:01 pm

Bob,

Rollers and brushes "DO" introduce bubbles, ... especially brushes. While it is somewhat of a pain, ... but try to mix less epoxy and slow down your application to prevent bubbles, or use the same amount with a slower harder. Also, try using the spreader more than a brush or roller if you can. If you have resin pooling that is foamed up, lay a paper towel down and soak it up. The resin should almost look dry BUT WETTED OUT. DON'T try to fill the wave on the first coat. That's for the next few coats. It really sounds like you applying to much epoxy. When I lay a layer of glass, I squeegee as much off as I can, and then pat it down with paper towels or TP to get the excess epoxy off. When it's gelled, I lay on another coat to get a chemical bond and fill a majority of the weave up.

Bill
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Re: "cloudy" areas in the epoxy

Post by Trackhappy » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:54 pm

I used only a squeegee and it was all good. Poured the stuff on and slowly squeegeed it out and as above the first coat was thoroughly spread out. I also notice that if I use a bursh it gets milkyGood lesson here, if it looks wrong going on, get it off before it sets and try again after cleanining it up. As for getting the old stuff off, heat gun and scraper should make the worst of it come off easier than sanding thorugh it.

All the best,
Glenn.
By the time I have built a boat, I'll be ready to build a boat....

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Re: "cloudy" areas in the epoxy

Post by Brian » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:20 pm

My problem is similar, and a bigger concern (i.e., not going to just paint it). After weeks of sanding and prepping, we applied the cloth and epoxy. Knocked down the big points and applied another layer of resin. That seemed to cover everything, so started sanding it down, 120/240/320/400/600. A few weave spots got exposed, but not seriously. I tested the weave spots with a few coats of clear polyU and you can't find them. Yesterday, I wet sanded the Mahogany sections (Paint below the WL) to 1200, as recommended by the automotive paint guys who supplied the clear polyU. When looking at it wet, I noticed a lot of cloudy vertical streaks. Being the eternal optimist, I figured they would not show through the clear polyU, but I was concerned, since I could see them through water. So I bought a can of polyU spray as a test and have put several coats on a couple of small areas (to be sanded off later). To my disappointment, the streaks still show. We're talking maybe 10-15 feet on the sides of a 27' hull.

I don't think I have an option other than removing the entire side of glass, which otherwise looks amazing :-( Very depressing. What is the process with a heat gun someone mentioned here? Sounds like less work than putting some 60 grit on my 6" sander and going after it.

I have one last possibility, which I will test shortly. If it's only the top layer of epoxy, maybe I can get away with sanding that off and re-applying. But that's going to be touchy to do over such a large area without getting into the glass.

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