25' Skiff Build

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Yofish
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:40 pm

Re: 25' Skiff Build

Post by Yofish » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:31 pm

SIMPLE TOOLS:

As I've said, I work alone and have had to make inert helpers to replace humans. So many things could be so much easier accomplished with a hand but I have a Jones about the matter. I do not produce anymore enough volume of work to employ a helper so I must compensate. At first, I had a struggle with that but became determined to do whatever I had to do to make myself as self sufficient as I could be. My wife thought I'd gone a little over, but I became keen on the idea over time. As a matter of fact, that pursuit made me better in many ways. I FORCE myself whenever I encounter the need for a hand to cudgel my brains for a way around. Further, it's one of the few things that keeps me in the game. Doing something over and over again can be a death, I think. It's been revealed that mice respond to a unique (changed) environment. They go through physiological changes as a result. Novelty. Every single time I start a new project I try to incorporate something that is novel - to me. More about that Occam's razor later!

So after that windiness here we have about the simplest 'tool' one could imagine. I've done different treatments to the inboard side of the sheer flat and have settled on a rectangular bar. Done pipe, round bar, rectangular tube but the bar is the best for me for two reasons: a) I can do it myself and b) a human can actually sit on it without not wanting to.

A bit of scap bar and some line:

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In use:

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Applied:

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Please notice the 16" Channelocs at the bottom. I use them a lot!

Yofish
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:40 pm

Re: 25' Skiff Build

Post by Yofish » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:50 pm

I'm happy. I'm behind where I would like to be, but that has been a lifelong problem of mine. I'm happy because all the gingerbread is on and things are pretty much okie-dokie. All the boring hand cramping backbreaking welding is over:

77 (Large).JPG

Now, the dreaded cabin....

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hoodman
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Location: Lafayette, IN

Re: 25' Skiff Build

Post by hoodman » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:47 pm

Thanks for sharing your build and knowledge. Looks like it's going to be a really nice boat!
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

Kevin Morin
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Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:36 am
Location: Kenai, Alaska

Re: 25' Skiff Build

Post by Kevin Morin » Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:05 pm

Yofish,
What about the cabin/doghouse/weather helm is that you don't care for? Several posts have a remark that the cabin isn't your favorite part of a build... but I'm not sure I've read why?

If you'd care to share what aspects of that portion of the boat makes it your least favorite- it would be instructive to learn?

Have you considered a nylon truck tie for the "sheer liner bar curve tool"? just curious if the rope is handy enough- seems like it will take both hands to pull and tighten or ease off? I was thinking a nylon strap's little winch might be more mobile? Never tried in this application but I have used them extensively in 'pulling up panels' near the bow.

Just wondering about the cabin and bar-curve-tensioner- another neat idea on how to hang that bar in an inside curve; alone.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
Kevin Morin

Yofish
Posts: 98
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Re: 25' Skiff Build

Post by Yofish » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:04 pm

First a thanks to hoodman for the kind comment.

And to Kevin's inquiry re cabins: my distaste is derived from that I suck at making them. I go into a bit of a depression when confronted. It does not help that in this case the client is 6' 7" tall and WANTS TO DRIVE STANDING. The helm is hard over so's you get the picture. 79" + 1" then at least 3" crown. I lowered the swimming pool to a 'dare' situation (that I will discuss at the end in the boo-boo section) and still, in the computer, it is a looming shit-house. I live for center console configs! Also, for some reason I can't grasp, center cabins are harder to make look cool than forward ones. AND! as it would happen, because of where I build, and what people want to do, nearly all are center to aft arrangements. Lucky me. People want to go land at a beach, here 'bouts. This adds other design features such as not making the bow too high so getting in and out is not too daunting. I refuse to make a Hewescraft (and others) with a dead flat sheer - that's just me. I could go on but I digress; plain and simple is that I haven't figured it out to my satisfaction. I've achieved acceptable, only. Part of it is, I think, of a sudden, one is dealing with all flat that is not a deck. The only thing curved is the lid. I dunno, I just pucker up with it all. I see things added to skiffs that are abhorrent. Monstrosities that make me cringe. I try hard to avoid that but I've come close. With a forward cabin one HAS to follow obvious lines so the imagination is constrained and when otherwise......

To the other: I used to use 1/4" x 2" rectangular bar and had to use a ratchet strap but moved to 3/16" and just stomp on it against a curb then tighten the line. Boy, I'll tell you that a hand doing this makes it sooo much easier to get a start. I have done ridiculous things to make that first (holding) tack.

So after fighting my depression, It's of to the brake tomorrow to form the cabin parts. The best part of that is my friend, who is the most supreme welder I know and who owns a brake, will talk about important things for a couple of hours even though the work part is only about 20 minutes.

Yofish
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Re: 25' Skiff Build

Post by Yofish » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:55 pm

I've actually made progress, such as it is!

I do the cabin in the computer too, but it's not the same as the hull as is not really integrated. Integrated as that the parts are not bonded to the hull model in the design phase but sort of 'float' on it as manner of speaking. After all the welding that has happened the hull is CLOSE to the computer model and remarkably so, but not close enough to trust that everything is within, say, 1/4". So, I make the cab parts a leetle bit oversized so to compensate. Sometimes I wish I hadn't but usually do. I used to do transfers from paper plots onto sheets the old way - tape it down and punch every inch or so on the curves and only two points on the straights then batton across the punched points Well, one time I ran out of plotter paper but had a 36" roll of craft that one buys at a hardware store to protect things like floors from painting. It's cheap and also twice as thick as bond. Hmmm, as printed I realized that I could cut the shape with scissors or an Exacto and the craft paper would hold and edge well enough for a Sharpie. Man, what a time saver! I know do all small parts that way and if I ever did a hull again that way it's what I'd do. Here's an example of cabin part, windscreen, It also has another part that will be used later printed on it:

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As I've said, there is not a hell of a lot I can add that is that useful to this part of the build because I'm still flopping around with it after all these years but I will say a couple of things. Start with a needed tool if you're working alone. These suction cups are essential. Harbor Freight about ten bucks (don't get the plastic ones as they are worthless) and are used to pull sheets to meet joints (first pic) or to hold (second pic) :

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Yofish
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Re: 25' Skiff Build

Post by Yofish » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:24 pm

Monkey motion!

The things you have to do to get things minnie-jinny. All of this cabin stuff is a fight against floposis, everything wants to just misbehave! We're talking about large FLAT sheets and knuckles intersecting and boy, one has to do strange things especially around the doors. This pic also shows a boo-boo that will be revealed at the end:

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And then, the silver shower, cutting out the windows which is not fun. Recommend wearing a hoodie. Skilsaw and jigsaw. Don't even think about a Skil 77 to do this:

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Now comes all the internal framing. It's pretty important not to get too frisky with welding until EVERYTHING is in place; framing, lid, and whatever lid trim. Things can get owly otherwise....

Yofish
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Re: 25' Skiff Build

Post by Yofish » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:30 pm

No one has a question? A comment? Never been on a thread that was so, can I say, quiet?

TomB
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Location: Holland, MI

Re: 25' Skiff Build

Post by TomB » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:22 am

Yofish - Sorry about the crickets!

While there's no metal boats or welding in my future, I enjoy following along.

Thanks for posting.

Tom

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DrBryanJ
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Re: 25' Skiff Build

Post by DrBryanJ » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:18 am

Sorry Yofish. I know nothing about welding and building with metal. SO as they say, I don't know what I don't know. I am enjoying watching you put this boat together. THe craftsmen here truly amaze me, and you rank right up there with the best.
Bryan

Building a malahini "Mona Lisa"

My wife said "If I build a boat, she's getting a divorce."

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hoodman
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Location: Lafayette, IN

Re: 25' Skiff Build

Post by hoodman » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:32 am

From the pictures, it appears that the cabin is well proportioned. Maybe you addressed this much earlier in the thread but what is the purpose and use of a boat like this.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

Kevin Morin
Posts: 738
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:36 am
Location: Kenai, Alaska

Re: 25' Skiff Build

Post by Kevin Morin » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:09 pm

Forum Readers,
Yofish builds in a town named Homer, Alaska, that is on a nice bay, Kachemak Bay (ketch'-i-mack) that opens onto the lower Cook Inlet that is a northern oriented arm of the Gulf of Alaska.

The North Pacific can be a nice calm stretch of ocean, but then, in other instances, is subject to waves that originate somewhere near Oahu. Anyone familiar with the term "fetch" will be able to understand what I'm trying to imply by watching the TV program 'Deadliest Catch' and see some of the weather and seas that are common to the North Pacific.

Most of those mountainous seas are winter time weather events when nobody is using a skiff! But.... there are some days, even in the summer when things get "right sporty" out by the Compass Rose on the Lower Cook Inlet Chart.

Leaving Homer's very nice little municipal harbor and running for an hour to some nice halibut fishing locations, just West and a bit South, you're a few miles out of Kachemak Bay and into the Lower Cook Inlet where seas can be larger than inside the confines of the East and West oriented Bay.

If you're out fishing for halibut with a few friends along for the day, it is very common to see weather change from a 'nice' day to a 'lumpy' afternoon. When that happens you need to get everyone inside a closed cabin- if you can?

40 degree water, even just wind spray, tends to cool the body very quickly. Rain gear helps but when it comes down your collar, from an overhead spray against the side of the boat.... you might still be a bit chilled. In fact this can cause hypothermia in an indecently short time.

On the other hand, on a nice day, you can stand outside on deck (fore and aft) all day and fish unless the weather (recall if you will? some of the weather has a couple 1,000 miles of fetch) 'lumps up'? If it does, the Skipper would most reasonably get everyone inside and head for the Harbor.

Also these boats are used in a Bay with few or almost no houses or development on the shores. So, many owners land them on the "beaches" to explore, and generally sight see the countless interesting and odd little coves, bights and inlets along the Bay.

however, we don't actually have sand beaches... or so few they're very rare. Our "beaches" are gravel- mixed with sharp broken rock from the cliff faces surrounding the 'beaches'. No other boat building material can land on these shores.

So Yofish's skiff is designed for a Bay where off shore fishing is common, where beach combing has its own 'flavor' and where "bullet proof" welded aluminum has proven to be the only material that will stand up to the local conditions.

Hope this helps you understand a bit more about the design and build? Anyone interested might down load Google Earth and zoom in to the area, then use the photo icons to explore more imagery to help get a better idea of how the area looks?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
Kevin Morin

Yofish
Posts: 98
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Re: 25' Skiff Build

Post by Yofish » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:40 pm

Well, thanks for the kind comments. I was wondering if I was in an empty hall, yapping. The reason I'm doing this here is that I want to pass something on as I'm getting on the short side of life's timeline - a vanity, for sure - but I feel the need and I make the time. Kevin has been an inspiration what with his relentless offerings of 'how to go about' these things. I would say unequivocally, he has inspired me to follow along. Why is it that there is so little about making AL boats on the web? I mean, just think about my old friend Renn Tolman and what he wrought? And more numerous others? Frankly, outside of Kevin there HAS BEEN NO ONE! Just wrap the head around that for a moment. Yes, yes one can visit Boat Design Dot Net and be regaled with people that don't have clue about building small AL boats. Of course that's not always the case but those who do apply get overwhelmed with idiotic hyperbole from 'experts'. This seems strange to me....

So Kevin reveals something important here with his comments, that which is about the the 'use' of the thing - his colorful description of the particular operational environment. In the summer, I live on a rock island. Twice I have punctured my skiff negotiating, at a certain stage of the tide, a narrow gap between two rock formations - boink! Well, why and the hell do you that, you ask? Because high tide is the best time to pack propane tanks or other heavy objects. And it happens that that rock gap is always there at the tide. I live in a place that has a tidal variation of +24 and -5.

Anyway, just about all my clients live in the same environment. This presents some unique design challenges. We call (what I'm showing on this build) a bowpicker after a style of a salmon gillnetter where the house is aft and the net worked over the bow. It will be obvious that if one wants a skiff that does not take a ladder to get off over the bow that it can't be too high if your packing a propane tank or lots of groceries, etc. thus a design restriction....

Yofish
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:40 pm

Re: 25' Skiff Build

Post by Yofish » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:05 pm

I've never built a cabin at the bow though I have designed some for others. To continue the last post, my operational environment has dictated the style. My reach has been pretty narrow (thankfully) in respect to the expected duty. None of my skiffs are axe-blade V's of 22* or such. They are all mere conveyances, like an auto. No one goes to Kodiak in one of my skiffs. They are duty specific with these design parameters:

a) don't cost too much
b) do not need 400HP to cruise at 20kts
c) can be loaded off the bow and importantly, humans, without them removing jewelry and dogs not breaking a leg
d) are capable, given the run of seas normal to the area, and can even exceed them.

That's it. I found a niche and hoovered it. I came to this after all my early work was commercial, i.e., fishing what with seine skiffs, net skiffs and jitneys but In the early 2000's commercial fishing s__t the bed and adaptation was, um, survival.

So back to the subject.

As I've said I really don't have too many tips or great ideas about making a cabin. EVERY SINGLE TIME I've done them a little different, but there are a couple of things I've learned. I've framed the lid this way and that-a-way and have finally settled on rolled bows (in this case, 1x2x1/8" channel) athwart. The top of this cab is 85"wide with a crown of 3". I wouldn't think of making it less than 3".

Here we have the roof beams (bows) set along with support (I jack it up a little to have a fore-aft crown because it will collapse plus I have to get up on top to weld and everything is rather gelatinous) with the two sheets in place that are the lid, propped outboard to make them flat:

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Once everything is firmly tacked the whole structure becomes quite rigid. I'm pretty pleased with this way of doing it and it's about the only thing I'm happy with re cabins.


The two lid parts have a 1" 90* bend that one side is notched every 8" for to weld. It's like standing rib roofing:

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Then, a 1/2" shot of pipe is slotted to make a clip to cover the standing ribs and slotted on top evey 16" to weld down:

85 (Large).JPG

Yofish
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Re: 25' Skiff Build

Post by Yofish » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:17 pm

Oh! Lots of little short tacks going around Robin Hood's barn. It can be uncomfortable if tacks blow on long welds on thin material:

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So, I'm past my want-to-be-done date of two months but if I have a good week....

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