question on scooter boat build

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twaite
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Re: question on scooter boat build

Postby twaite » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:13 pm

Kevin,

Here a few pics for understanding, its for pushing the boat in ultra skinny water at a snail crawl were flounder lay at night.

newboat-27.jpg

newboat-5.jpg

gigging flounder.jpg


Nothing better under the broiler
Capt. Travis

Kevin Morin
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Re: question on scooter boat build

Postby Kevin Morin » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:32 pm

Travis, flat fish come in several flavors, nobody here bothers with flounders, halibut or don't bother. Guess its regional, never heard of eating flounders? Had hundreds of fights with them thrown at me (and hit too) and me at them, but never heard they were edible?

But I can see the bent pipe frame fine, guess the noise of the prop doesn't bother them? How do you see to fish at night- hand spots?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
Kevin Morin

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Re: question on scooter boat build

Postby twaite » Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:54 am

Kevin,

We use 8-10000 lum LED submersible lights it makes it look like daylight



The Flounder industry here is in the millions......
Capt. Travis

Kevin Morin
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Re: question on scooter boat build

Postby Kevin Morin » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:10 am

Travis,
the things you learn online! I had no idea those fish were food? Here they get caught in the salmon gill nets, or when rod and reel fishing for halibut- and are just a pest that gets thrown back (or at your crew mates).

So you have a strong light, stand on the bow, and spear/gig these flat fish in the shallows? What a way to "run a railroad!"

thanks for the explanations.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
Kevin Morin

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Re: question on scooter boat build

Postby twaite » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:52 pm

Kevin,

Next time one gets thrown at you catch it take it home and scale it (old metal horse brush works great) cleaned it, season it with some olebay seasoning or lemon pepper, squeeze a lemon over it cut up a half stick or so of butter broil it until meat flakes and you will be glad you did...
broiled flounder.jpg




We call it gigging here, great way to keep the kiddos entertained, always moving, never hear why are the fish not biting, no tangled lines, no bait and when they get tired they just pass out on deck... been doing it for over twenty + years....
flounder%202.jpg
Capt. Travis

twaite
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Re: question on scooter boat build

Postby twaite » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:51 pm

Kevin,

I just noticed in my post for the weights I posted fan motor on the bow and it should have said stern :shock: :shock: :shock:
Capt. Travis

Kevin Morin
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Re: question on scooter boat build

Postby Kevin Morin » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:59 am

Travis, as soon as I saw your picture of the pusher prop I understood the typo.

I'm now working on interior framing and would like to know the four corner foot print of: the pusher prop pipe legs - frame size plan view. The same of the deck mounted amidships deck's 'footprint' - these dimension can be outside of pipe or centerline, as long as pipe size if given.

The deck edge is in front of me now. This is the joint between the deck, the topsides and any 'rub railing' or shape that is planned. I notice that some of the pictures show just a corner, others seemed to show (not all that clear from a distance) an extrusion or toe railing? What would be the best of all worlds in your experience?

I'm prepping some example sketches so if you were able to post before they're done I'd have more guidance. I want a toe rail myself, but then I only think open saltwater in the Gulf of Alaska, or bays off that water. If I had a physically challenged guest on the boat, in a wheel chair? I may want to have some entry gangway to get over a medium toe rail that could help restrict movement of wheels overboard? On the other hand, the water may be so calm, I just can't imagine it and any toe railing or raised coaming around the deck is not good practice?

The gains of a toe rail are the benefits of footing restraint where there might be a slip; the detriments of a toe rail are that lines pulled over the side will wear on, or interfere with, that same railing. Of course, pipe, bar or some other shape (depending on availability) may be used. I'm not sure of your Local Metal Supplier's inventory or willingness to bring in shapes that may be useful? Spitting pipe is not all that hard to do, but if not split along a fairly smooth line, will make installing and weld out a royal Pain in the stern! I can buy half pipe in the 2" to 3" sizes here but admit that seems way out of proportion to your boat's depth of hull and might look poorly on the lower topsides?

G extrusion, http://www.alaskancopper.com/pdf/al/marine.pdf and other shapes used specifically for the gunwales as rub rails are available to boat builders in this (PNW) are commonly. The G shape might be useful to your boat? But I'm not sure you can order it on your Coast?

So, while I burn out a few sketches to explore the sheer joint in section, please consider what may be the most effective design for your boat?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
Kevin Morin

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Re: question on scooter boat build

Postby Bill Edmundson » Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:11 pm

Travis

The only thing that will help that flounder is a big scoop of crab meat!

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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Kevin Morin
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Re: question on scooter boat build

Postby Kevin Morin » Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:18 pm

Travis, while drawing I realized I had some sketches already done that will work as an example of a few methods to discuss.

Image
Shown above, this sketch uses 'slit' pipe where a saw is run the length of the pipe to open a slit to push the pipe onto the edge of the topsides. I realize your boat's deck is not as shown, this is to explore slit pipe edges.

Image another sheer lining technique is to use a 1/2 of a pipe extrusion- as mentioned before you buy 2" and larger as finished extrusions saving the labor of splitting the pipe with a saw. However for the smaller diameters splitting the pipe with a saw is the only way to get this 1/2 round hollow shape.

These both provide a rub rail but only the shape above the deck line will provide any kind of toe rail. So, that decision is important to make first- smooth to the edge or something above the deck's line? Then the other decisions can follow.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
Kevin Morin

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Re: question on scooter boat build

Postby twaite » Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:01 pm

Kevin,

Quote:

I'm now working on interior framing and would like to know the four corner foot print of: the pusher prop pipe legs - frame size plan view.

2" pipe 26" on center..

The deck edge is in front of me now. This is the joint between the deck, the topsides and any 'rub railing' or shape that is planned. I notice that some of the pictures show just a corner, others seemed to show (not all that clear from a distance) an extrusion or toe railing? What would be the best of all worlds in your experience?

Scooter boat.jpg

I really like this layout it looks like it could work very well with the design... I would prefer a toe/railing as pictured



Would use 1" pipe for railing (will plan an opening to accommodate access for wheel chairs... when installing railing) would like a split pipe for gunnel cap (bumper/rub rail)

[b][i]Could we drop the deck height from flush say 3-4" to create a toe???

[/i][/b]
Travis
Capt. Travis

Kevin Morin
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Re: question on scooter boat build

Postby Kevin Morin » Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:26 pm

Travis the pipe stand is 26" square? Doesn't look like that in any of your pictures posted? But I can plan it square if that's what's happening in your version? seems a might tight on the engine tilted up and turned hard over?

Not seeing the freeing ports in this picture posted of the tan colored boat/? that will sure trap some water on deck! I'd want to see some scuppers/freeing ports/cut outs in that toe railing!

I can't make out your design cross section from your post?
Yes, the deck can be lowered but you'll short your transverse frames scantlings so much its a very poor choice- as in "not if Kevin is draw'n de boat!" I'd say if you'll define the railing I'd try to draw it, but right now there's not clear cut decision?

I'd add some bar or capped bar on top of the deck, I'd even consider a short pipe rail with legs, but not sure from your post? Sketch, take pic, post.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
Kevin Morin

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Re: question on scooter boat build

Postby twaite » Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:28 pm

Bill Edmundson wrote:Travis

The only thing that will help that flounder is a big scoop of crab meat!

Bill


Amen to that... that's a regular at our house, it is also very well accommodated by fried soft shell crab....
Capt. Travis

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Re: question on scooter boat build

Postby twaite » Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:32 pm

Kevin,

26" center 46 height is that what you are saying..
newboat-5.jpg



Wife said she wants a flat deck no toe (so no toe it is) half pipe rub rail

Railing Ideas
boat railing 1.jpg
boat railing 2.jpg
Capt. Travis

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Re: question on scooter boat build

Postby twaite » Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:14 pm

Thought I would also add a section of short railing each side of console, to give you something to keep you from stepping off while walking aside console similar to this photo
boat railing 3.jpg
Capt. Travis

Kevin Morin
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Re: question on scooter boat build

Postby Kevin Morin » Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:37 pm

Travis, please re-read my pipe mount dimensions questions?

What is the PLAN (I'm yelling at the screen asking for the same info many times!) top/looking down/from above.... the Plan View of the dimensions of the pipe bases as they touch the hull-
There are two sets of dimensions; length and width of a rectangle. They are not (!) 26" OC unless they are square. What are the dimensions of TWO/2/both/each of a pair of frames that stand on the deck?

One is a pair of pipes to hold up an engine at the stern. It will have pipes that touch the deck in four locations. One set of dimensions will be transverse/athwart ship/side to side/across at perpendicular to the keel or Beam of frame. The next dimension will be fore and aft/long wise/'with the keel'/opposite the previous dimension.

The other is a raised platform deck that holds the console, the leaning post and a cooler mount frame forward all set on a deck? If that is correct I'd need to know.

Having random photos posted with no photo edited notes is not helpful. Of photos will reveal a design goal, you will need to edit the photo to show arrows to the feature being discussed. Then is clear declarative statements you will need to state why the photo is present, what we will learn from in and what effect this photo has on our design goals?

These two pipe frames will touch the deck and weld down. They will need to have sub-deck framing to accommodate the loads of the frames in both static and dynamic loading.

At this time I cannot work on the design as I'm stopped without a set of rectangular dimensions- these numbers should be provided as A) Center-line of the four pipes involved , or, B) outside tangent of the pipes at they touch the deck or C) some other measurement reference not A or B?

These are very simple questions, please take time to consider your answers, then post he FINAL answer, not some iterative process of thinking aloud online. Please read my questions and if there is confusion, post a quote on the exact text lines that caused the confusion and allow me to help clarify. At that time, once there is no confusion, then you can reply, until then it is premature to reply.

If you need to confer with the First Mate, please do that before posting, and sending me around a design iteration that will be rejected- AfTer I've spend a day or so looking for solutions on a path shown by your posts?

I've designed hundreds of boats, please rely on my methods so that our design process can move ahead smoothly and not feature me saying things about your Mother- whom I'm sure is a wonderful woman but who's name I have been tempted to besmirch with sailor-like language because her son is not thinking before posting.

Do it right once, its faster than being in a hurry where you 'do it' haphazardly only to end up having to take it apart and do the work over again. IN fact its 3x faster- just re-read that sentence. Once in a hurry, poorly; twice to take it apart: third time to do it right. I suggest: read, re-read, make notes, review notes, consider ALL factors, sketch and review your own photos, consider some more; finally reply with decision where your 'Yeah is Yeah and your No is No'- please.

At this time you appear to be wandering in design land. Stop. Make a list- where have you heard that before? The list must include ALL/100%/superset/totality/inclusive of every last bleeding "THINg" on this boat's deck- with full and complete final dimensions the dimensions must reference some repeatable part/location/shape/point on the object to be put on the deck.
:?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
Kevin Morin


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