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 Post subject: Re: Plywood frames?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:04 am 
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Location: Bellflower, CA
Very nice Steve! Good to talk to you on the phone yesterday...

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 Post subject: Re: Plywood frames?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:58 pm 
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Location: Colborne ON Can
Steve; Sounds like an interesting build, what with the ply frames and all. Sure would like to see some pics :( :?
Doug


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 Post subject: Re: Plywood frames?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:08 am 
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Ok slug,
My son showed me how to publish these short videos on Youtube, so hopefully you can see the project develop.
I started with one that's routing out the #8 bow frame. Hopefully these links will work for ya.
Grampa Steve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxNJcv67GHM


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 Post subject: Re: Plywood frames?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:21 am 
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Here's a few more "moving photos" of our project;

Forming the frames
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOd2iyV_Oyo

Stringers and transome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br-lMX79CFk

Cold forming
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91ueDbTejEc

Cold forming with the grandson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av0YHaX9_ec

Planing Mahogany planks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmYaIHcPBtU

"Speed spiling" the 9" X 16ft planks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8O5WvPsMu8


Last edited by Grampa Steve on Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Plywood frames?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:07 pm 
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Location: Colborne ON Can
Thanks Steve. Lookin good!
Doug


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 Post subject: Re: Plywood frames?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:08 am 
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Location: Bellflower, CA
Steve,

Neat videos! Thanks for posting...

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 Post subject: Re: Plywood frames?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:53 am 
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Posts: 661
Location: Wichita, Kansas
I just read this entire thread. Please forgive my unsolicited thoughts.

I respect the plans as written and will make my Zip with solid timber frames, but if I had a stack of marine grade 3/4" ply or had a line on a good deal for some, I wouldn't hesitate to build it with ply frames.

Let me see if I can do some theoretical problem solving here.

Strength:

If the solid timber is say..., 20% stronger (for the sake of argument), simply make the plywood frame proportionately wider from outer edge to inner edge. That would seem to solve that problem.

Endgrain won't hold fasteners as well:
As for end grain and fasteners, there seems to me to be a very simple fix here--looking at the plans for my Zip reveals it. We use a solid piece of plywood for the transom, but we add solid timber as a 'frame' in this area. However, it is not really a 'frame' in that location as the transom is a solid 'bulkhead' if you will. Rather, it is just some solid wood screwed to the plywood for the purpose of holding some screws.

With that in mind, why not just use small scraps of mahogany screwed to the plywood frames next to the notches cut for the longitudinals. This gives you some solid material to screw the chine, sheer, keel, battens, etc into. This would seem to easily address the problem.

Endgrain soaking up moisture over time:
If this is a concern, I would borrow a page from the stitch and glue process. I would add a small epoxy fillet to all areas in question. Would this not seal the area adequately?

I mean, we use plywood gussets near the bilge. The book indicates that we can even use a lower grade exterior ply for this. Why aren't we concerned with that ply soaking up water? If encapsulation works in this area, why would it not work on plywood frames?

I'm not advocating the economy of such a pursuit, because I simply don't know. But if a builder wants to do it, I'm convinced it can be done with excellent results. Sometimes, people just want to put their own spin on the process. I imagine that it's rewarding. Maybe it's a creative thing. :wink:

On the other hand, I may have no idea what I'm talking about. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Plywood frames?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:57 pm 
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Posts: 125
Thanks for the positive reinforcement Randy!

Some more progress on "Old's Cool".
We just finished sanding and staining the ribbon formed mahogany top sides. CPES next.
Here's a short "moving picture" taken during the process;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMFvpbsjRk4

PS. plastic staples rock


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 Post subject: Re: Plywood frames?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:50 pm 
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CPES sealer applied. Now we're gettin' somewhere.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePatmonts ... OVeSvF-OCQ


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 Post subject: Re: Plywood frames?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:48 am 
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Location: Branson, MO
Looking great Steve -

Were you able to remove all the sanding marks on your first try?

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My Riviera build - the Midnight Cry Project

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 Post subject: Re: Plywood frames?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:49 pm 
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DaveLott wrote:
Looking great Steve -

Were you able to remove all the sanding marks on your first try?


Thanks Dave,

We got most of the boat sanded pretty well we think, but did "develop" some disc sander swirls on the more poorly lighted side of the hull. We couldn't see so well near the fence, but after this CPES step they're visible. Not sure what to do now, but I bet they get even more "telegraphed" after glassing and polishing for the brightness we want.
With your experience can we re sand just those marks out after stain and CPES and then re apply stain and CPES in that area before we glass, or would we have to redo the entire side first? If so we may just grin and bear it.
Thanks in advance for your advice.

Grampa Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Plywood frames?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:59 pm 
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Grampa Steve wrote:
CPES sealer applied. Now we're gettin' somewhere.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePatmonts ... OVeSvF-OCQ


Did anyone notice our swim step in the transom? Ever see anything like that before?


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 Post subject: Re: Plywood frames?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:31 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Sarina Queensland Building 23ft Belle Isle
Steve,

I was wondering what that hole was for and thought it may have been a custom exhaust!!!
It is a great idea rather than having a ladder or step that goes over the side... are you fabricating an insert to go in the hole?? Stainless??
I have been wondering what to do for my build...did you see the idea else where or is it an original??

Your build is really starting to get a move along.... got a flip date in mind yet?? I am a little way behind you but am going to flip around mid october.... I am also building the Belle Isle :D :D :D

Jamie


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 Post subject: Re: Plywood frames?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:11 am 
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Location: Branson, MO
Grampa Steve wrote:
DaveLott wrote:
Looking great Steve -

Were you able to remove all the sanding marks on your first try?


Thanks Dave,

We got most of the boat sanded pretty well we think, but did "develop" some disc sander swirls on the more poorly lighted side of the hull. We couldn't see so well near the fence, but after this CPES step they're visible. Not sure what to do now, but I bet they get even more "telegraphed" after glassing and polishing for the brightness we want.
With your experience can we re sand just those marks out after stain and CPES and then re apply stain and CPES in that area before we glass, or would we have to redo the entire side first? If so we may just grin and bear it.
Thanks in advance for your advice.

Grampa Steve



Yes, I had those guys a lot in my first coat. I redid the entire side three times to get them out. The only way is to sand by hand with the grain thru the grits. I used a little 1 ft long by 2 1/2" wide 'long board" that I made from a push pad for the table saw. With 2 handles I was able to get down with the grits and get it out. But it takes time. And yes they will telegraph.

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My Riviera build - the Midnight Cry Project

Video of Midnight in Action
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 Post subject: Re: Plywood frames?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:58 am 
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DaveLott wrote:
Yes, I had those guys a lot in my first coat. I redid the entire side three times to get them out.


Yikes! No way we have that kind of time or patience. I used a high powered 9" disc sander with 80 grit for first pass on the mahogany. Took a very careful
technique, but did a great and fairly quick job. Belt sander, though ok on the bottom, is a no no on the topsides. Next we took those flat plastic handled sandpaper holders with foam backing and went over the hull first with 60 grit, and then again with 100 grit. Didn't want to get too fine as a good bite was recommended for the first coat of resin under the glass.
The harder to see side that earlier showed some swirl marks has been redone, and looks like no bad consequences so far after stain. Fingers crossed.

Love living dangerously!

Grampa Steve


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