Glen-L.com

I was reading some other posts tonight and had a revelation (or a breakdown...).

I have been planning to make transom bands and a cutwater for my boat, but have started having mixed feeling about them and many other design choices that I 'thought' I had already decided on.

It occurs to me that I have inadvertantly fallen into a 'see it, do it' way of thinking on this project. There are just so many beautiful examples of the classic 'mahagany boat' look herein that I have naturally wanted to emulate what I have come to admire so much. It's almost as if I have decided on a design 'recipe', ya' know? Bright wood, chrome fixtures, gold leaf boat name on the sides, etc, etc. I mean, let's face it. Such boats, when well made, are stunning and have great value! I had limited my creative choices to hull and bottom color--true waterline or one that follows the chine.

The problem is that this design direction while safe and most likely successful, has not been inspiring me. I am not motivated to get out in the garage with every spare hour and work on building what, by most accounts, would be a fairly predictable end product. The artist in me wants to mix it up, get irreverent, do things that would shock the traditionalist. I want some 'wow' factor when people see it, even among boat builders, but I also want to pay homage to the traditions of beauty that got me into this endeavor.

The other issue is value. I don't want to create a freak in the wooden boat world that could never be sold if I chose to make room for that Monte Carlo I'd like to build some day.

This is tough stuff gang! I'm struggling here! Maybe I'll just paint flames on it.

As I am still working on the frame, I guess I have time, but having an inspiring vision sure would help get me off my butt.

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Andy Garrett

"When all else fails, follow the instructions." -Dad

Talk to me about floor grids. Looked like a great idea. Still is. But 60 hours later. Heck I could build another boat in that amount of time

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Dave

My Riviera build - the Midnight Cry Project

Video of Midnight in Action
Blog

Few things in the world measure up to the thrill and satisfaction of boating in a boat that you built.

After getting NO building done for months, I have taken a week off work to get this baby framed! Just finished the first night.

Wow. I am a terrible carpenter.

By the time I've faired the whole thing to the propper lines, I may not have enough frame left to screw on the plywood!
This may be the first 'stitch-n-glue' Zip!

I did have an issue with the plans: The frame for the transom as pictured on the full size plan sheet, shows a full width bottom member with the side members shorter. That is to say that the chine and sheer would be screwed into the end grain of the frame members.

That flies in the face of everything the book says about screwing into end grain. I realize that the big danger is using the end grain of plywood, but when discussing different types of frame construction (particularly double gusseted construction), the author specifically indicates that the side members should be full length to provide the best purchase for the fasteners. To that end, I modified my transom to follow that advice, especially considering all the wieght hanging on the transom. The book shows images of both methods.

I'll post some pics this week.

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Andy Garrett

"When all else fails, follow the instructions." -Dad

Feel for you Andy, seems we are similar in the sense that we want to individualize out boat in a way that we are proud of without necessarily 'following the crowd. I had some here seemingly dismiss my desire for a true waterline, at least I now see that the latest two ZIP launches had 'true' water lines so I'm not a voice in the wilderness. My 'true' water line is painted and done, come what may.

I will not have a stainless steel cutwater or transom bands, they are fine, just not my style. I went to the effort to notch the sides of my 'slab' transom so the plywood butted up to a lip at the back end of the transom to give those edges strength and ability to withstand bumps and not have to deal with issues of the side ply end grain running past the sides of the transom. While nobody will ever see to know, my keel and skeg are cut from one piece of wood.

I'm also trying to fabricate some laminations to form a hardwood rub rail and avoid the stainless steel rub rail route. It's taken me a lot of time just to laminate them to date and I have yet to sand and finish them, this without even knowing for sure that they will work. It's sometimes just trying to push one's skills to their limits.

You still have time, the real 'personalization' of the boat doesn't really start until after the flip, I've schedudled My Flip for Aug. 26.

You can be creative in the species of wood you choose and where you use those various species. If it was in the budget I would have seriously considered flames on the side of the boat, like a real retro hot rod. If the music moves you, dance to it my friend!

There were times during the fairing and especially the sanding and fairing of the hull ply that besides thinking my arms might fall off I wondered if it would ever be done. It's now done and let the fun part begin.

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This is my first, last and only boat build.

http://www.gdzipbuild.blogspot.com

Hi Andy.

I wouldn't go so far as to say the forum users are expecting or even suggesting comformity to any 'idealized' design. That passion that powers each of us is a very powerful drug and when we are looking at the fantastic works of art put forth by other builders its only understandable that we would want 'close to the same thing' for our own builds. We share a lot together as a boat building community... ideas.. passions... and as such we will tend to 'sync' on ideas. But that does not suggest we will not embrace diversity or different views. It just means you might be the first to do it.

Pretty much everyone here, if I can be so bold as to say this, supports whatever dream you have, whatever vision you have, of your build. Ultimately we all know this is a PERSONAL passion that we individually pay for with our wallets, sweat, blood and tears. In the end, we know that YOU have to live with YOUR boat, just like I have to live my MY boat, and be happy about it in the end.

You are not building for me... or for anyone in the Glen-L or boatbuilding community... or for anyone else besides yourself and your family.

Personally, I am not using SS rub rails or cutwaters or transom bands... I MIGHT use them in the future if I feel they are needed to keep my maintenance down. However I prefer the look of wood... and I don't mind (currently) touching it up now and then and filling some dings and scratches as they appear. If that becames too tedious... then I will slap some metal to cut down on the work. But till then.. I have some nice, thick, hard, encapsulated & coated lumber that I can enjoy looking at.

I am using Meranti for my top deck... giving it a 6oz fiberglass covering for wear durability... because I want my top deck to match my bright ply sides. Its not the same as those gorgeous 3/8" solid wood tops... but looks darn good to me!

Something I had to do early on Andy... particularly during the fairing process... was give myself permission to SCREW UP. I was frozen in my build because I was too worried about messing it up. It took a lot of soul-searching to realize that even if I do screw up something, I can probably fix it. And I also gave myself permission to extend my deadlines as often as I felt necessary. I want to enjoy this process... and I have... as deadlines and fear of mistakes can really make the process less-enjoyable or downright painful.

Almost nobody here is going to judge you on how fast, how pretty, or how much you 'conform' to others. Most of us know how you feel, have felt it more than once ourselves, and will enthusiastically support you no matter what you decide.

Just have FUN with it Andy... whatever that is for you... do it and do it proudly!

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Ian (aka Iggy)
My Malahini Build

Well said Iggy.

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You'd be surprised if you added every extra cost that isn't much in the "big picture".

edited
Sorry I read your post incorrectly, while my brain was working on another issue..

Andy, with the creativity we have seen on your knives, we are looking forward to seeing what you do with the Zip. You may create the new standard. Glad to hear you are re-inspired, have fun with it and share some pix. I still miss the build process so enjoy it.

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My Webalbum: http://picasaweb.google.com/Buckeyesmith1/Gem#

The best part about a manual screwdriver is not needing to remember if you left it in reverse.

Completion is but one step in the process and not one bit more important than the others.

Andy, I believe you did right by making the side lumber pieces full length so the chines and shears have non-end grain to fasten to.

That's how my plans all call for it to be done (TNT,Power-Row Skiff,Pee-Wee,Tunnel-Mite)

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Boat building can best be defined as an endless series of
tragedies obscured by the occasional miracle, followed by a good bottle of beer.

Don't Dream Your Life, Live Your Dream

The Zip plans show the side members short and the bottom and top members long, but since they are all fastened to the transom with screws and resin, making the sides long to use the better grain is certainly good sense and practice. I made the transom per the drawing and I did have some screws tear out. I needed to repair with resin and flour and use a longer screw in one place. Good call, Andy.

Roberta

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Roberta
Built Zip "Oliver IV" and Super Spartan "Jimmy 70"

Just woke up... time to get to work!

I want to thank everyone for the excellent reflection in their responses.

My design thoughts have zeroed in on a look and feel that I'm really exited about. I want to pay homage to the 50s as that was when this design was born. That will be accomplished in several subtle ways, and I owe much of that focus to reading the other Zip build threads herein. Now, I wonder if I can pull it off.

As for the carpentry..., I'm just glad I've had reallity hit early. This will allow me accept the flaws as they come so long as they don't make my boat sink and I can live with the visual and performance results.

That being siad, I'll be buying a bandsaw before starting the deck. A jigsaw is just too unpredictable.

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Andy Garrett

"When all else fails, follow the instructions." -Dad

There isn't a job or project that I've done that I didn't realize I could have done better, and there is always at least one 'fly in the ointment' or 'imperfection' that I have learned to accept as the reality of life. If it's a big 'booboo' it gets fixed, if it's one of those "why didn't I think of that earlier" it's a life lesson learned - we can only hope to learn from our mistakes, because if we don't we are doomed to repeat history.

I'm with you on the '50's theme, just found out the boat was designed in '54 and I'll be running a '59 Mercury Mark 35A.

Ya going with the 'hoop skirt' and 'fuzzy dice' hanging off the rear view mirror' look?

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This is my first, last and only boat build.

http://www.gdzipbuild.blogspot.com

I have read on here these are not so much flaws but "(not by) design choices". They add character to a boat. I have almost decided to name my Gentry "Karacta" in deference to my boatbuilding skills. As you say though, the main thing is that it is safe and will float. I may have lots of little things not quite right, but in the end she will be strong and pretty.

I am definitely going with true painted waterline, pondering cutwaters and transom bands mainly for damage avoidance, but also I am pretty sure our regulations here require an anchor on board and I can't think where to put one on Gentry, so thinking a nice cutwater with an anchor sprit and a nice chromed anchor and winch and chromed chain... Uh Oh, there go those dreams again....

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By the time I have built a boat, I'll be ready to build a boat....

Man. I am totally with Buckeyesmith: If you can somehow etch your chrome like you have done to your knife blades that would be stunning!! ...as a matter of fact...I would carry the whole knife theme into your boat as a whole......the dash....the wheel (spokes of knives...not sharpened of course) and on and on and on.....make it a one of a kind!

That sure is what I am going to do when someone tells me what to build!

Steve

A little epoxy covereth a multitude of sins.
I got my band saw at Lowe's 14" Porter Cable for $399.99. It's a great investment, especially if you want to build more than one boat or have other projects in mind.