Glen-L.com

Love the tug, however, I would prefer to have more of an old school tug bow more vertical, rather than the curved runabout look. Simple? Thoughts...
Thanks
WW

Hi WW. Graham here from Australia. I recently asked about some modifications to the Delta Q houseboat; in my case changing the beam to get a slightly wider boat. Gayle sent me a link to a very informative article by Ken Hankinson on changing designs. For me and my intentions, it answered all my questions.

I am not saying it will answer your questions, but I do believe that anyone planing design changes should read this article; so here's the link; http://www.glen-l.com/changing-plans/

I wish you all the best in your building project and hope the changes you wish are possible.

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God bless all who sail here

Since these are stitch and glue, Glen-L advises not to change the patterns as it's hard to make things work.

for what you want to do though,I'd try it first with some cheap laua or underlayment plywood and tweak that till you get the look you want,then modify Glen-L's patterns with the luan ones for the bow.

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I guess I could make the boat, then cut the bow off straight up, above the waterline. I've built dozens of boats, some exactingly to the plans, some not... I have a few sheets of luan laying around, but replacing that is getting up there also; and a appliance store down the street, I can get some pretty good sized cardboard sheets for nothing..
Or I could build a stretched Berkeley tug and put the interior of the Tug Along in.. there I go again modifying things..Just this build, I thought I would try to do less thinking and more building..
WW

Unless I'm mistaken, all it would take is to straighten the bulworks at the bow. This should give you the plumb bow like the Titan.
Can't see it being a problem for someone with building expereience...after all that's how you learn ( or not )
Doug

Frankly your proposed modification does not look that hard and any real problem as long as you do not change the rake of the stem, going from the junction of the keel and chine amd the stem cap at the deck location. If you look closely at the drawing profile, it appears that the junction of the keel and chine is left of the vertical line at the cap or top. If you want the stem to be completely vertical as that line does not appear to be with the curve, this will cause some enhanced stiffening for bending than a slightly raked foward straight stem.

I just copied the profile pic and penciled in from the bow eye, vertical, then extended the gunnel lines forward, I think that will work; then put a rope beard on the bow..
WW

I think that will work, even though you will need to wing it for the side panels. You may want to check the overall running distance of the drawn plans to make sure that two sheets joined together will make the distance. If not you may need to shorten the bottom a bit since the sheer will be the longest running distance.

I agree with Oyster. I did a similar modification with my True Grit. I liked the reversed angle of the bow on the Coastal Cruiser but thought the straight line looked better on the sedan version. With mine the entire change was with the bulwarks but to accomplish it the stem and breasthooks had to be modified. With S&G I wouldn't think there was a stem to worry about.



Although the drawing doesn't show it I also straightened the line at the transom using the same method. This gave me a few more inches of interior space in the cockpit.

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So Many Rivers,
So Little Time....

I've been thinking about the issue of changing plans lately. I was reading back through Ray's Cabin Skiff building this past weekend and I'll probably write an article about this. We don't advocate changing a S&G design because the whole purpose of this method is simplicity and ease of building for the first time builder. These boats have to be built to get the patterns that are provided to you. Changing the design renders these patterns useless. If you have experience and like the looks of the boat and don't mind making the project more difficult, it's not an issue. Nothing's "impossible", just maybe not practical for some...

BTW Ray--I so enjoy your stories and info about building your boats...

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Gayle Brantuk
Vice President
Glen-L Marine
Visit our Blog & Create Your Own!

Gayle is right on target - and she is trying to be polite in mentioning my "problem" when modifying my Cabin Skiff. Not to worry Gayle. I think my screw-up is a great example of what can go wrong and I have no problem using it as a word of caution. For what it is worth here are my thoughts.

Particularly with S&G construction ANY modification needs to be undertaken with very careful consideration and a thorough understanding of possible cause and effect. I think sometimes we fall into the trap of seeing what appears to be a simple change and fail to step back to try to predict the limits of the true domino effect it may create. When building my Cabin Skiff I decided to lengthen the 16' hull to 18'. At the time to my very inexperienced eyes this seemed like fairly straight forward modification. Just continue aft the lines of the four hull plywood panels which form the hull - stitch them together and go. This was a simple plan but the result was anything but.

I found the extension caused a change in the overall size and shape of the transom and as a result I had to buy and additional sheet of 3/4" marine ply to make it work. Plus, I was then on my own to "try" to re-configure the transom shape to accommodate the different location and size (This is probably where my error developed). The aft bulkhead was then positioned where the transom had been and it's size too required an additional sheet of plywood.(The plans are extremely efficient in the use of the plywood.) I spent a lot of time on this and was confident I got it right. I didn't! Still not 100% sure where I made the mistake but I ended up with a rocker in the extension which caused the boat to ride in a bow high position. I still swear I checked the bottom with a straight edge before rolling the hull upright but somewhere something went wrong and eventually the completed boat needed to go back in the shop to rework the bottom. I managed to fix it and all has worked out OK but this mess would have been prevented IF the plans had been followed.

Here is where I briefly touch on making the change - http://egyptian.net/~raymacke/Cbnskif1.htm

Here is a link to the fix - http://egyptian.net/~raymacke/Cbnskif30.htm

As to the modification to the bow mentioned in this thread - I still think it could probably work but as above there will be ramifications. The hull sides at the bow are going to be pinched in and as a result will flatten some - there will be less "cheeks". This will also probably change the shape of the forward deck and a new pattern will have to be created. The bresthooks will need to be re-shaped as well as the length of the bulwarks.

These are just the things that come quickly to mind and there may well be others. So, the builder needs to try to predict all the changes that will take place and then decide if the modification is truly worth the effort and possible problems it may create. This may become easier with experience but can be tough for a first time builder. In this case it seems the goal is just to change the appearance a little. So is it worth it? Only the builder can answer that but often the answer is probably not.

_________________
So Many Rivers,
So Little Time....

Ray I think its safe to say that you created a new boat, unlike the small modification thats being proposed. Of course Gayle's recommendations and comments carries a bit more weight than even my own hotair.

Ray--I have a tremendous amount of respect for your work on the Cabin Skiff and the True-Grit. It's admirable that you made changes to get what you wanted, in spite of any "problems". You still created some darn nice boats! Great comments too--I may quote you

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Gayle Brantuk
Vice President
Glen-L Marine
Visit our Blog & Create Your Own!

Or I could build a stretched Berkeley tug and put the interior of the Tug Along in.. there I go again modifying things..Just this build, I thought I would try to do less thinking and more building..
WW[/quote]

Hi WW and others. Mike here (from South Africa) Re the quote above, thinking the same - got both the Berkely (Candu EZ) plans and the Tug Along plans. Intend to use the 'rocker' bottom of the T Along below waterline, and the Berkely concept (and aesthetics) above waterline. Moving the cabin (of the berkely design) a bit more aft to accommodate the very well designed interior of the Tug along, and to have the centre of boyancy and gravity as per the Tug Along plans.
Both designs have a 36 inch radius stern, but that is where it ends. It is proving to be quite a challenge, and not simply a matter of imposing the one design on the bottom of another. Because of a difference in the flair of the sides, the narrower bottom of the TA, it is only the concept of the Berkely that can be followed above the WL, and not the measurements.

Apologies to the designers, both are excellent designs, its just a matter of personal preference.

Thanks everyone, enjoy all your ideas.

.

This is just my opinion, but for what it's worth ........
I modified the hull length and cabin design of the Bo-Jest, both of which are considered relatively minor alterations for this design. While I am generally pleased with the results, the majority of the delays and frustrations I experienced when building the boat were due directly to the changes I was making.

Once you change a major dimension (especially in the hull itself), the result is that many of the dimensions and angles on your plans are no longer relevant and need to be changed. It was especially frustrating for me as I tried to figure out which dimensions or angles were still accurate on the plans, and which ones I had to refigure due to the changes I'd made in another area.

While I had only built one small rowboat prior to the Bo-Jest, I had a lifetime of woodworking experience, and since the changes were "minor" I thought they would go smoothly. I learned that changes in a boat seem to have a domino effect, and what seems like a small change in one place will often neccesitate changes in many other places.

One of the great things about building your own boat is the opportunity to build what you want, but there are lots of boat projects sitting unfinished in garages and barns because the builder decided to "make a few changes" and then got overwhelmed with the problems they caused. At this point in my life, I don't need frustration - I need fun.

My advice for anyone who is not experienced in marine design would be to spend some extra time studying plans and try to choose a design where you can be happy with as few changes as possible. If the design needs anything other than very minor changes, I would keep looking until I found a plan than came closer to being what I wanted.

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Tom
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Knot-So-Fast (A stretched Bo-Jest design)
Travel Log at www.tomstug.blogspot.com

"It's amazing what one can do when one doesn't know what one can't do." - Garfield