Pondering some Amigo questions...

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Locutus
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Pondering some Amigo questions...

Postby Locutus » Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:28 pm

I like the Amigo but if I ever build one I'll probably have a shipwright help me with it just to speed things along. I might be dead before I finish if I try doing it by myself.

Anyway, first of all I'd like to find out if the design meets any recognized criteria for seaworthiness and safety, such as a Lloyds rating. I think I read somewhere that Lloyds (or maybe some other organization) requires wood boats to have a total hull plank thickness of 1.5 inches to meet open ocean standards. I don't know if this is correct or changes with the size and design of a boat. I guess I'd have to contact Lloyds or whomever. The Amigo has a hull thickness of only 3/4 inch (wood) plus the interior and exterior fiberglass sheathing (perhaps an additional 1/16 inch). I have to wonder how seaworthy this really is. Will the hull and deck withstand the onslaught of a breaking wave, green water on deck, turning turtle or any number of storm-related stresses? Can it withstand a whale strike or collision with an errant shipping container?

Another concern of mine is the fact that with a strip planked design like the Amigo, the grain of the hull strips is all in one direction, so in my view there may be risk of splitting along the grain, as opposed to a cold molded design like the James Cook, which uses cross-directional planking. Is this a real issue or am I worried over nothing?

Finally, I wonder about which materials would be better. Cedar is light and quite rot-resistant, but it's also a relatively soft wood and splits easily. Mahogany might be tougher and has moderate rot-resistance but is heavier and perhaps more expensive. Which would hold up better in the aforementioned collisions and storm conditions? So I dunno...any feedback on this would be appreciated.

Oh, one more thing: Since my purpose for the boat would be long distance ocean passages and living aboard while in faraway anchorages, I'd like more stowage and tankage capacity than as-designed. I was thinking of raising the shear a few inches, but building the same size cabin top. This would allow raising the sole for the same headroom and the bilge would thus be deeper for tankage. The added weight of water, fuel and stores would raise the water line, making the freeboard appear the same as it otherwise would have without the changes and added cargo weight.

To free up more stowage space and generally simplify things, I'd skip the inboard diesel and use an outboard. However, I'd like to add a lazarette behind the rudder for an outboard well and gasoline tanks, which would add at least 18 inches in length aft, which would all be above the water line. The rudder shaft in this case would have to be similar to that in the old Alberg designs, two examples being the Pearson Triton 28 and the Alberg 30.

Another design change I'm considering is eliminating the quarterberth, and in its place have more cockpit storage and an aft head, as is done in the Pacific Seacraft Dana 24. I'd probably have to change the positions of some of the bulkheads to to this, so some engineering might be required to assure hull integrity is maintained.

Perhaps I'm overthinking things and would be better off just finding a good old fiberglass hull and refitting to my own liking. One thing is for sure: I don't want to spend the rest of my life on a project. I want to get out and sail, sooner rather than later. (By sooner I mean shortly after retirement, which is about 5 years from now.)

Maybe I should just buy a Dana 24. As expensive as they are, I could probably find one in bristol condition for less than it would cost to build the Amigo. Or perhaps a Cape Dory 27 or 28, or a Triton 28 or Alberg 30, all of which can be found pretty cheaply.

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Locutus
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Re: Pondering some Amigo questions...

Postby Locutus » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:06 am

(Sound of crickets from the community.) :?

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Pondering some Amigo questions...

Postby Bill Edmundson » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:42 am

Locutus

I don't want to discourage building!

Most of the mods you propose, don't seem to be a big deal to me. An extension for a lazarette might be OK above the waterline. Adding stowage and tankage should be fine if the CG is maintained. A little added weight doesn't seem to affect a displacement hull.

I don't know about Lloyds requirements.

I'm not sure whale and container strikes are a reasonable design consideration. I know it has happened. But, as an engineer, I don't have any idea how you would quantify these for design.

I know that Pacific Seacraft are respected bluewater boats. Twelve years ago I bought a nice 1983 27' Hunter w/ 8 HP Yanmar diesel for about $10,000. The Hunter is not a great bluewater boat. I suspect that you can find a good used boat for less than and faster than you can build.

I hate to say it. But, I think used is your best bet. Regardless, we'll all want to see any improvements or restoration that you do.

If you do build, "Don't use cedar." (Ken Hankinson)

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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Locutus
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Re: Pondering some Amigo questions...

Postby Locutus » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:56 pm

Thanks Bill.
As much as I'd love to have a brand new boat that I built and customized myself, for my purposes and at my age I might have to go for an already restored and refitted production boat, probably with a fiberglass hull. Or maybe something like this:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/boa/5987686071.html

Looks an awful lot like an Amigo to me, even though the ad doesn't say so.

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Pondering some Amigo questions...

Postby Bill Edmundson » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:05 pm

It does look like a good prospect.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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NAMEngJS
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Re: Pondering some Amigo questions...

Postby NAMEngJS » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:15 am

Though I dont use Lloyds on a regular basis, I can say that the American Bureau of Shipping does not have a set plate thickness for shell plating. Generally, the rules account for many variables, depth, tankage, location (midbody or ends), desired frame spacing, among a host of others. The ABS guide for construction of yachts is 280 pages of rules and include guidance for many different construction materials.

I said all that to then have to clarify some points, classification societies like ABS and Lloyds while can be used for personal craft, are generally for commercial vessels. It does not mean that personal use craft are any less soundly designed, but for Mr. Moneybags who buys a 40 to 200 million dollar vessel will want insurance on his purchase and the insurance company will want the vessel designed to some accepted classification society. Military vessels for example are designed more on a first principles (read as actual structural calculations on a case by case basis) than on the general rules that have safety factors built in. Also, the classification societies in no way imply that it is a warranty, or guarantee of fitness or safety. That depends on the builder of the vessel to build a sound vessel and the master to know how to safely handle the vessel.

Again this is not to say that the vessel's built here are any more or less seaworthy than one purchase built from a manufacturer. If you dont want to spend the time to build a vessel and can live with one that may or may not need restoration by all means go that route. But if you do choose to build your own, I see no problem with the lazarette so long as it is above the waterline it will not have a significant affect on the vessel. The internal changes (ie removal of quarter berth) also will not affect the vessel as this is most likely not part of the main longitudinal structure. Raising the sheer can have adverse consequences unless you take care to ensure that the center of gravity is at or lower than designed CG. Tanks low add weight low but as they are used the net affect is that the CG will rise.

Hope this is not too wordy and that it helps you make a decision. Though it would be awesome to see this built imo :lol:
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds, wake to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers by day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.

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Stuart
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Re: Pondering some Amigo questions...

Postby Stuart » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:01 am

The Amigo is a nice boat however I would recommend buying the boat from the advert you posted. Firstly, you can not build a good boat for that amount. The price of wood when you can find it, can be expensive. Additionally, there is hardware that has significant value. Any kind of motor is going to be $2000. Price wise buying that particular boat is sensible.

Secondly, I am guessing you want to go sailing now, not 5 years from now. Building a boat takes time. Five years to build the Amigo is not out of perspective. If you want to go sailing and are into your retirement, a long term project might keep you from going sailing. Building a large boat takes time and thought. Each step is a success and builds confidence and pride. The work can be difficult but mostly is a pleasure. In deciding to build a boat, building the boat may be the objective, not going sailing.

Many of the new boats have none of the classic sail boat features and inside appear more like an expensive bath tube. If you want a classic wood boat that is new, building one is perhaps the only way.

Stuart

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Pondering some Amigo questions...

Postby Bill Edmundson » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:44 am

Locutus

Buy it. Even as a donor boat there is at least $13,000 in hardware, sails and rigging, And, engine. Since he went outboard, I guest he used the fuel tank capacity for a waste holding tank. You can't dump overboard anywhere until you are 3 miles offshore. Grey water can go overboard.

Bill
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Locutus
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Re: Pondering some Amigo questions...

Postby Locutus » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:36 am

Not ready to buy yet, but I called the seller yesterday. He couldn't confirm that it's an Amigo although I'm convinced it is. Turns out this one has a one-off fiberglass hull. The 87 year old seller knew the builder and actually saw it under construction.

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Locutus
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Re: Pondering some Amigo questions...

Postby Locutus » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:08 am

That Craigslist Amigo I mentioned above in February is still for sale, and the price has been slashed, if anyone is interested. Hull is fiberglass, deck and cabin are wood. Here's the new ad.

https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/boa/ ... 01984.html

00000_clpNzFi8FQP_1200x900.jpg

Mark-NJ
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Re: Pondering some Amigo questions...

Postby Mark-NJ » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:32 am

A marine survey might prove otherwise, but at first glance that sure looks like a lot of boat for that price.


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