Rampage Update 2017

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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BayouBengal
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby BayouBengal » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:27 am

Looking great! I really like the natural wood transom look, although I hate thinking about the work it took you to get to it.

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Mr Hot Rod
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Mr Hot Rod » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:15 pm

This engine build may be of interest to you. It's from Hot Rodding Magazine's Engine Masters Summer 2008 Edition, Volume 11 No. 2 :

    The Monster Mash Big-Block Chevrolet 496 by Richard Holdener.

    Build as normally aspirated engine :

      Image
      Photo by Richard Holdener, Hot Rodding Engine Masters Magazine
    or augment it with a Vortech supercharger :

      Image
      Photo by Richard Holdener, Hot Rodding Engine Masters Magazine
    Dyno Results :

      Image
      Photo by Richard Holdener, Hot Rodding Engine Masters Magazine
Either build it yourself or have an engine builder build it for you.
The article is copyrighted, so PM me if you want more info about this engine build.

I'm sure John Amundson is already assembling parts for this one ...

____________________
Paul Kane
Kane Custom Boats Ltd.
Chelsea, Quebec

Building the Glen-L Hot Rod : http://www.kanecustomboats.com
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Last edited by Mr Hot Rod on Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Nova SS
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Nova SS » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:13 am

WOW impressive numbers for 8.25 CR. You could run that motor on just about the crappiest gas you could find with no ill effects. Helps keep the costs down, a little, when you are using it.

Denon Osterman
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Denon Osterman » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:12 pm

Thanks for the kind words all! Yes, it was quite a bit of work to get it to the "clear" transom...I really wish I'd had the idea before I finished it the first time, and I would have actually saved some effort instead of spending way more!

Paul, PM sent - that looks like an awesome starting point for a build. I think I'd like to push the CR a little bit as Jet's prefer as much torque as possible...I'm thinking 91 Octane @9.5:1 or even 10:1 given the colder temps of a marine engine should be fine.

As for this weeks update, it's mostly just shiny new parts! It was my birthday last week so I decided to splurge a little and get all of the gauges, switches, and control stuff (cabling) so I could route it all out.

First through, I got the little "feet" done for the side floors. I'm going to need a different strategy for the middle ones so they're not done yet, but here's how the feet look mocked in (still need to be glued in place):

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Otherwise, the entire time was spent on installing / mocking hardware:

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Pushpull style switches for the lights, bilge, start / choke, and ignition.

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Gauges - two fuel for saddle tanks, and two temp because I'll want to see oil temp as well (will likely need to rig a slightly different sender or play with the resistance to make it work for the higher temp range of oil, but it'll be a lot better than nothing!)

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Rack style steering from Uflex.

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"Hot Foot" throttle - there's also an adapter to turn my 3300 style throttle cable into the mercury style the hot foot expects.

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Mocking the steering and shifting to the pump unit...it fits!

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I'll clean up the routing a bit once everything's finalized in place...I don't want to constrain anything too much.

That's pretty much it for this week. I'm hoping to get the decking all mocked in and a lot of epoxy work done this upcoming weekend, but will have to see how much progress I actually make.

Denon Osterman
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Denon Osterman » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:39 pm

Alright, a little bit more exciting progress this past weekend. I got the floors fully ready for encapsulation ("feet" are now attached and fitted), and got all of the decking (sub decking?) fitted as well. I'd gotten the 4 main panels fit in the past, but filling in the sides / bow brings a complete look to the boat that just wasn't there before. Note - it's not yet fastened or glued in place, just fitted. I can't decide if I want to rig everything like steering, throttle, shifter, etc permanently before I deck, or (more likely) put the decking on and then have to string it all through later. I welcome any thoughts :)

Next week I'm hopefully going to take advantage of some of the good weather and go mountain biking, so likely only going to encapsulate the bottom side of the decking...but then we get a long weekend and I'm taking an extra day, so should get quite a bit done (might even get the decking on / veneered!).

Without further ado, some pics!

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It's a fast looking boat for sure :)

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Below is that annoying little "fill in the gap" piece of plywood...

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...and also annoyingly, the rear plywood panels are 2 mm higher than the front...which will be tons of fun to plane out :(

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One of the things that originally drew me to the Rampage was the beautiful curves in the hull at the rear, and they're still one of my favorite parts of the design:

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Looking into the cabin with all of the floors in place:

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Overhead "progress shot" for this week...cheating a bit as they're not actually fastened in place yet, just fitted...I still need to take them off.

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I was lucky enouogh to get some help with encapsulating the floors! Jen will be doing all of them as she has a patience and attention to detail for these things that I'm a bit lacking in...you can see the wood really start to shine as the epoxy goes on (top 4 planks), and it will look even better with varnish!

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Two floor sections down, 4 to go (and then another coat, and then varnish... :wink: )

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That's it for this week! I did also pick up some books on engine building...a special thanks to Dave and Paul (and everyone else...is Caber still around?) for helping me out with that as well.

Cheers,

Denon

Nova SS
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Nova SS » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:55 pm

That looks great Denon. The Rampage is an awesome looking design.

Denon Osterman
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Denon Osterman » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:20 pm

Well thank you! I just noticed you're not too far away...seems there's quite a few of us in Ontario! What lake do you usually run on?

JimmY
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby JimmY » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:08 pm

Looks fast just sitting there!

Nice work on the floor panels, they will really set this off.
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

DSR
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby DSR » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:38 pm

Hi Denon,

The Rampage looks killer!! Very nice!

When I look at the Rampage in the Glen-L catalog, the radiused cockpit didn't really do much for me, but seeing it on your build, I think you converted me. It looks great!
It also looks like your mods to the hull, along with the design of the soles and all the other countless touches, really did the trick too! Just think, this Rampage will be a one-of-a-kinda and there will never be another one like it, and it's all your fault!! :lol:

It won't be long now and you'll putting some serious big block iron in it to make it cook as good as it looks! :D

Thanks,
Dave
DSR Performance - Home of yet another jet TNT build :D
Codename "Just A Little....."
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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Bill Edmundson » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:21 pm

Denon

I'd put some fairly compound on the low side of that sub-deck then take a long board sander to that joint. That way all the material doesn't have to come off just one side.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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Nova SS
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Nova SS » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:26 am

Denon Osterman wrote:Well thank you! I just noticed you're not too far away...seems there's quite a few of us in Ontario! What lake do you usually run on?


There does seem to be a few of us within 2-3 hour drive. Currently I don't have a boat. The closest water way from here would be the Trent river. Would be lots of fun to run in and you can actually go places due to the lock system. There are many lakes though within an hour or so. That is one advantage to this part of Ontario as water is never very far away.


Maybe us Ontario members should think about having a little gathering of sorts of our own?

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Mr Hot Rod
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Mr Hot Rod » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:42 am

Denon wrote wrote:...and also annoyingly, the rear plywood panels are 2 mm higher than the front...which will be tons of fun to plane out :(

:idea: It might be faster to mark the frame, sheer and coaming on the underside of the plywood panel and router the marked areas with a square router bit. This would save a lot of fairing ...

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Kane Custom Boats Ltd.
Chelsea, Quebec

Building the Glen-L Hot Rod : http://www.kanecustomboats.com
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Denon Osterman
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Denon Osterman » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:29 am

Thanks for the kind words Jimmy! Most of the floor panel credit goes to my girlfriend Jen, for the spacing / sizing / actual work on making and finishing them...but I do agree they'll really help set it off when it's done!

Dave, the radiused cockpit is pretty unique - like the rest of the boat - and even among Glen-L builders I haven't seen much of it. But I love the way it draws attention to / highlights the engine, and makes the whole boat "curve" a bit more. Still making my way through the learning curve on the engine side, but at least I'm starting to make some progress!

Duane, I thought you had a tornado back in the day? Maybe a red one? Or am I getting my memories mixed up... Either way, I'd fully support a gathering from all of the Ontario / upper east coast folks!

Bill + Paul - Good points on both. Having look over things again this weekend, the fore-aft curve "downwards" towards the transom starts right around the joint, so if I only sand the rear (thicker) panel, it will just move the start of the curve slightly backwards, if that makes sense. That being said, I think I will use a bit of both cutting down the sheer and carling and adding some filler to the top of the thinner panel to get everything just right. Don't want to cut corners this late in the game!

Last but not least, a very quick update for this week...I really didn't do much. With the help of a roller I managed to coat the underside of all my plywood decking with epoxy - two coats in all - in just under an hour of work time. I also managed to Sikaflex some of the major gaps between the frames and side panels (for instance), so that there's no chance water can get in to places I might have missed during encapsulation. I also managed to get some wedges glued in place between the battens at the back, so water can flow to the keel from the outer edges of the boat, and last but not least realized that I probably need a lower concentration of stain than I'd originally planned, as my test samples came out nearly black!

Here are some of the stained samples, the extra dark / blueish area bottom right is where there's a little bit of epoxy as well. I'll have to dilute it and do more tests until I get the nice dark brown I'm looking for:

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They still need some cleanup with a sander, but here are the wedges at the back for letting water reach the center:

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A close up of the Sikaflex - in black - that I'm using to plug any small gaps that a brush can't reach:

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I chose black purposefully because I think it blends into the rest of the hull much better than white would have at a distance, and will do a similar trick for any my deck fittings, given it's a very dark colour as well. Unless you're looking for it, it really doesn't stand out, which is nice:

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Last but not least, I had to arrange all of my decking panels upside down so I could coat them with two layers of Epoxy. I put the front two panels on the front of the boat, the small panels on my bench on some wax paper, and the rear panels just off the floor on some scraps near the rear of the boat...and it all worked out! Here's a (poorly lit) shot of the front panels:

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That's it for this week, but as I think I mentioned I'm taking a few extra days for the upcoming long weekend, so should get quite a bit done by next Monday! I'd also like to take a second and give a shout out to Noah's in Toronto - I suspect most people in the area already know this, but I continue to really enjoy their service. They have no issue pointing me to a competitor if it will give better results (like with my stain), helping me out with a selection on, say, which sealant to use (I was going to use 5200 or Silicone, neither of which would have been as effective for what I'm trying to do as Sikaflex), and even gave me ~30' of free plastic wrap to protect the sides of my boat when I glue on the tops. They also have a new brand of epoxy out, "Ark composites" (get it? Noah's Ark?), which is about half the price of the MAS I've been using, completely blush free, and extremely visually clear when hardened...all nice stuff!

Cheers everyone, and I'll probably have a new post up daily starting Wednesday through the following Monday as I try and get the decking on, the veneers on, and everything ready for final finishing.

Denon

Nova SS
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Nova SS » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:19 pm

Denon Osterman wrote:Duane, I thought you had a tornado back in the day? Maybe a red one? Or am I getting my memories mixed up... Either way, I'd fully support a gathering from all of the Ontario / upper east coast folks!


Man I wish I had one back in the day but no that wasn't me. Possibly you are thinking of Paul Miller he had a red Tornado. Though I believe I read on here that he has sold it. So far all I have, Tornado wise, is a set of frame templates. Not totally happy with them and will redo them before making the frames. We have been stuck in never ending renos on our 1850's house for about the last 6 years. Every job that looks simple in reality always opens a can of worms. So the Tornado has to wait a while longer till we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I am looking forward to having a tornado in the water. In reality its likely not the most practical choice and a Rampage might actually be a better choice. (I have the plans for that too) But I really want to have a flat. Experience it. I've spent a lot of time on a hot boat site and picked the brains of several knowledgeable people (people that have been there done that and bought the tee-shirt) on rigging this type of boat to make it fast but more importantly as safe as it can be, I have a plan, know what I want to accomplish, its just a mater of doing it.

I'm looking forward to seeing how you laminate the veneer on your deck. I have a few ideas as to how I would do it (vacuum bagging is high on the list). I have a buddy out in BC that works for a company that build very high end homes with custom exotic veneers etc on the woodwork. I want to pick his brains on this topic and possibly see if he could be a source for the veneers as well.

I'd be definitely up for a gathering of sorts or just a plan on meet and greet.

Denon Osterman
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Denon Osterman » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:34 pm

Possibly you are thinking of Paul Miller he had a red Tornado.


Ah, that's probably it - my mistake! I think the only logical course of action at this stage is to build both the Tornado and the Rampage at the same time, for comparison purposes of course ;) - but it sounds like you know what you want to do which is awesome! We'll have to cruise the Trent Severn or similar one day when they're both finally done...I'd race you to get in the water first, but I've got an 8 (???) year head start! (At least, I think it's 8).

I do all my veneer work with Raptor composite stuff - can't afford a vacuum system and the stuff needed for it, and honestly after using the Raptors for the bottom I don't know why you'd ever want anything else anyways.They're pretty much perfect for the application. I wonder if there's a way to search for Ontario / close by users on the forum and see who all we could get out? A "Gathering North" :D

Well, two days into my "weekend off" and I've done nothing but work on the boat, the weather has been terrible. On the bright side, I've made lots of progress! Key points are that the dash plate for the gauges is (almost) ready to go, the sub decking is now permanently part of the hull, and the first strips of veneer are on (much more will come tomorrow). I also finally managed to kill a tool - my belt sander, the very first tool I got when I started this project, finally lost it's drive belt today. Still debating if I should try to find a replacement belt or buy a new one...I guess we'll see how the mood strikes me tomorrow when I go to grab more sanding belts at the hardware store.

I managed to take 40 pictures between the two days so, for the full story, head to the facebook album at https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1007656525867.2003777.1658550263&type=1&l=410d0be633 and keep scrolling until you get to the last 40 pictures :wink:

A few highlights:

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Cut out the hole for the metal dash plate.

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Two shots of the metal plate mocked in. I'm getting a friend of mine to machine the holes and leave some cool designs on the plate before it gets mounted permanently.

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I had to both cut through the dash and dash beam, as well as pocket into the dash beam even further so that there would be a "lip" for things to mount on. This was surprisingly tough - I needed a scroll saw, hole saw, skinny hand saw, and power filer to get it all done...but it turned out. It's not that pretty from behind, but doesn't need to be - and once I mount everything, all the gaps will get filled with either epoxy or sikaflex.

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With the dash taken care of, everything mocked in in earlier weeks, and the whole inside encapsualted and sikaflexed, it was time to get the deck on! Step 1 - protecting the sides, thanks to some (Free!!!) plastic wrap I got from Paul at Noahs.

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The front half went on painlessly - no issues at all. The dash also got protection thanks to some wax paper and painters tape.

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Tried to build up this panel with thickened epoxy...it sort of worked. I haven't lapped the joints on the underside because it's a very short span and gets lapped on the top by the (1/8") veneer, as well as multiple coats of epoxy...but I'll likely end up sticking a reinforcing member underneath it at some point with epoxy.

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The back panels are on, and that completes the decking! I will say however - the back did not go on lightly. All of that test fitting had effectively stripped some screw holes, and had countersunk others to the point that they no longer held the plywood. It was *very* tough to get it to bend near the rear corners enough to mount flush...but we managed to pull it off by re drilling some holes, using larger and longer screws, etc etc.

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Progress shot from day 1 - got a heck of a lot done!

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Day 2 started with me trying to get the white ash highlight strips that will run along the sheer line to fit the curve - they were about 10 inches off in the middle if the ends were correct. It was very important to me to get them "pre bent" because once I ripped the 7/8" square section into the thinner veneer strips - which would be 7/8 wide but only ~3/16" tall - they would never take the bend without twisting and trying to take it about the "skinny" axis, if that makes any sense at all.

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I ended up using this *very* simple jig to hold the ash in a bent form while I poured boiling water on it every ~30 mins. Think of it as a sort of poor man's steam bend. See lower below for the results (spoiler alert - it worked!).

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While the strip was getting accustomed to it's new shape, I prepped the rest of the subdecking for veneering. Which basically means sanding...and lots of it.

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A few hours later, the sides were perfectly straight, and the top was perfectly flat!

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The last step was ripping all of my veneer "sheets" (~6" wide) into "strips (~1.4" wide - the extra .1" is for the kerf of the table saw blade). You can see a few "un ripped" ones on the right, and then the ripped ones in the boat. The skinny, brighter strips between the two are some more white ash accent strips, but straight ones for other parts of the boat.

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The big reveal...the bending worked! When all was said and done, there was only about 2" left in the middle...around 80% less than before. This meant I could rip it on the table saw and negotiate the last little bit of the bend without too much trouble...

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And there they are, the first two strips of the top veneer on the boat! It still took quite a bit of cursing and effort to get them to follow the curve exactly, and quite a few raptors, but they're on the boat now and the rest of the deck only gets easier. I will point out that, while raptors are awesome, they do not have as much "side ways" strength as metal fasteners. In other words, they hold things down just as well...but not in a curve. The other issue I noticed the first time I tried to put those strips on were that the hardened epoxy from filling the screw holes on the top of the plywood would not pass raptors - they'd just snap and not penetrate. So, only use raptors into fresh wood...not hardened epoxy!

That's it for today. Saturday is supposed to be rainy again, but might be too cold to epoxy - yes, you read that right, it's August and it might drop below 10 C! Either way I'm hoping to get the rest of the deck veneered this weekend...I might even try staining it but I'm still worried about getting the right concentration after last weekend, so I might hold off until I do some more tests.

Take care everyone!

Denon


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