Building The Vera Cruise

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby Bill Edmundson » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:12 am

Carl

I know you just have them sitting in there. Make sure the hose will take the bend. :wink:

Bill
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Jimbob
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby Jimbob » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:43 am

Looking good Carl!
Somebody told me that some bilge pumps come without check valves. If you are considering two bilge pumps, feeding into a common hose to your thru hull, it might be a problem. I was told that without a check valve one pump could pump water back through the other pump if that other pump was not running. Someone on the forum might have suggestions on this. I would like to know the answer myself.
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mrintense
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:06 am

Thanks Bill, and Jim

Bill, I was looking at the photo and it gives the appearance that there is a short distance from the outlet to the wooden support. Actually it is underneath the support and the hose outlet has nearly a straight shot. I believe that it will be a gradual curve upward. It could possibly be sharper where it exits the hull. since I don't have the hose or the thru hull yet I can't say for sure but I will order extra length hose so that I can accommodate the thru hull attachment straight on.

Jim,

I haven't looked at the specs regarding a check valve for this pump, but I plan on two pumps and two thru hulls (opposite sides of the boat) with two separate hoses. Main thing I will need to make sure that the thru hulls are well above the water line. My hope is that in a couple of years I will have to replace the pumps because they have stopped working from non use! And I don't mean from non use of the boat! :D :D :D

Cheap insurance as far as I am concerned. :D :D

On another note, temps were considerably cooler today and I took advantage of that and applied a third encapsulation coat to the interior bilge area. Normally, with his heat, I can go out in two hours and the epoxy is already hard, but with the cooler temps it was still sticky. Started worrying that I mis mixed the batch. But all is well, just took longer to set up. :oops: :oops:
Carl
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Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:32 pm

The remaining pieces of the cabin floor structure have been installed now. This includes pads for the bilge pumps and switches. I am going to hold off on painting for now while I move up in the vertical direction. I'll lay in a temporary floor to make it more comfortable to work. The actual floor piece will come later.

IMG_20170907_141628.jpg
Carl
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Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

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North
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby North » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:26 pm

Hi Carl,

Just in comment on automatic type bilge pumps vs float switch controlled ones like yours.
I am no expert in bilge pumps, and on my sailboat it was a manual switch, but the boat took on very little water from the gore-tex stuffing at the shaft.
Anyway, when building my Double Eagle, I had read about some issues/ complaints about float switches sticking or not working, so I opted for an "automatic" Rule pump. I assume, incorrectly, that it used a circuit to "sense" water / a small amount of electricity before coming on when needed.
Nope...it just tries to pump for a couple of seconds, every 2 minutes and if nothing is there, it shuts off. If it "senses" water is there during on of the short cycles (2 minutes apart) then it will continue to pump until it is clear.
Maybe it's just me, but this seems stupid... for me, to hear it come on every 2 minutes is annoying- may not use alot of power, but I still consider it a waste.
In hindsight, I should have went with your setup, and just did some maintenance / exercising or the float switch every once in a while....

Looking good- keep up the good work!
Darrell

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:50 am

North wrote:Hi Carl,

Just in comment on automatic type bilge pumps vs float switch controlled ones like yours.
I am no expert in bilge pumps, and on my sailboat it was a manual switch, but the boat took on very little water from the gore-tex stuffing at the shaft.
Anyway, when building my Double Eagle, I had read about some issues/ complaints about float switches sticking or not working, so I opted for an "automatic" Rule pump. I assume, incorrectly, that it used a circuit to "sense" water / a small amount of electricity before coming on when needed.
Nope...it just tries to pump for a couple of seconds, every 2 minutes and if nothing is there, it shuts off. If it "senses" water is there during on of the short cycles (2 minutes apart) then it will continue to pump until it is clear.
Maybe it's just me, but this seems stupid... for me, to hear it come on every 2 minutes is annoying- may not use alot of power, but I still consider it a waste.
In hindsight, I should have went with your setup, and just did some maintenance / exercising or the float switch every once in a while....

Looking good- keep up the good work!
Darrell


Thanks Darrell,

I wasn't actually aware of how this auto feature actually worked, assuming like you did that it was just an internal switch rather than external. I used the approach I took because the automatic bilge pumps were too tall for my application. However, I agree with you on the approach that the auto pumps use. I think I prefer the manual approach. As I build my boat, I am writing a maintenance manual and noting various things like this as inspection items. Some point in the future, when the boat is completed, or at least being used, I will better organize the manual so that certain inspection items get scheduled for specific times.
Carl
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Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

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BayouBengal
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby BayouBengal » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:08 am

That's not the way that mine works. Knock on wood, I've not had any water in the bilge and it has not come on, but I know it works because I tested it. I have one of these https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2377&familyName=Rule-Mate+Automatic+Bilge+Pumps#. I also have a higher capacity pump, but it's not automatic.

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:12 pm

Jeff, interesting counterpoint. Well, regardless of how they actually do work, Ill be going with the separate switch and pump approach (at least up forward). I read good reviews on the model I bought so I already have them. And I really believe that other than rain or water over the transom, or a puncture(hopefully never that), I don't see there ever being a time where water will be in the bilge. No openings in the bottom of the boat and high free board and relatively sedate plans for usage will probably mitigate any water. However, I still believe these are necessary devices because you never know.

Today I started working on moving up in the vertical direction for the cabin. I had to spend quite some time on two things so I didn't make as much progress as I wanted, but I will continue on it tomorrow.

The first thing was to get a temporary floor in place.

The second item was determining the design of a vertical support between the seat box and the head box and its relationship to the underlying floor structure. This took a while because my drawings for this area are not scaled nor dimensioned (more like sketches really) so I had to figure out where the vertical support is actually placed and how it's going to attach to the other structure.

While working on that I realized I need to get the vertical facings on the V berth because those have to be in place before the remaining seat box structure is made. Looking over some other sketches I had as well as a cutting plan, I noticed that I had made a mistake in laying out the cutting plan for the plywood parts. I had to spend some time going over that again to make sure I accounted for a missing part and an incorrect quantity of parts. Fortunately, there was enough plywood for all of this.

Eventually I got around to cutting and fitting the two V berth vertical facings. That was a bit of a headache getting those the way they needed to be but after a while I prevailed. But that bit of a headache turned into a raging pounder and I had to stop. Feeling better now, but that sure can put a dampener on things.

Here is an in progress shot. There is still more work to do on the facings. Eventually, the parts visible in the cabin will be veneered with mahogany, but that will come much later. The horizontal ,umber in the foreground is setting the height of the seat boxes. I'll be using mahogany for this eventually and of course it will not go across the center aisle.

IMG_20170908_193420.jpg
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hoodman
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby hoodman » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:34 am

Usually enough water in the bilge to cause the pumps to run is going to be either really heavy rain or forgetting to put the drain plug(s) in.

Also, it's great to see your progress, Carl. I know it seems tedious now but your thoughtfulness will pay off later.

I am also at the point of trying to work out the interior of my boat. Of course mine is much simpler. But still nearing the end of the written instructions kinda leaves me scratching my head sometimes. Like "blocking" the cockpit flooring to the chine. This is not really detailed anywhere. You are just supposed to know enough to be able to figure it out at this point. I know I will but it would be nice to get a little clarification.

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:23 am

hoodman wrote:Usually enough water in the bilge to cause the pumps to run is going to be either really heavy rain or forgetting to put the drain plug(s) in.

Also, it's great to see your progress, Carl. I know it seems tedious now but your thoughtfulness will pay off later.

I am also at the point of trying to work out the interior of my boat. Of course mine is much simpler. But still nearing the end of the written instructions kinda leaves me scratching my head sometimes. Like "blocking" the cockpit flooring to the chine. This is not really detailed anywhere. You are just supposed to know enough to be able to figure it out at this point. I know I will but it would be nice to get a little clarification.


Thanks Matt,

What I am finding out about the interior is that it pays to spend a bunch of time just thinking about what you want to do. I've rethought the floor of my cabin three times now but each time it gets better. Sketching out thoughts helps as well. And don't commit to anything permanent until you are absolutely sure that is the way you want to go.

Just this morning I rethought how I am going to have access to the bilge in the cabin. Originally the plan was to have a narrow access panel running the length of the cabin floor. But that had a few disadvantages. For one , access to the outboard part of the bilge was limited. Secondly because of the way the seats and head box overlap the floor, I was pretty much tied into permanently mounting the floor (something I didn't want to do). After thinking about it for an hour, I decided to make the entire floor an access panel and only permanently attach narrows strips of flooring on the outboard edges. My underfloor structure lends itself to this with only a small amount of modification and it allows me to gain access to the entire bilge area later on.

For me, the interior has required a lot of "chair time" because I am deviating so much from the original plans that they are essentially not needed for this phase of the build. But as you mentioned, the extra effort will be worth it i believe because I am striving for a much more open cabin. The original design was too cramped for the uses I have in mind for the boat and with the shorter cabin length, a different approach was going to be necessary anyway.
Carl
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Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:05 pm

Starting to look like a cabin interior! i spent several hours today thinking about the seat box structure and trying out various ideas. I have a finalized plan now for the starboard side (the port side will be slightly different) and made the parts. Initial assembly of the parts has been accomplished.

Here is a shot of the parts during the fitting stage before anything was epoxied together.

IMG_20170909_161241.jpg
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Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby Bill Edmundson » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:45 pm

Carl

Looks good. This is a real slow part. No two parts are the same and each is a custom fit. And there is no plan to go by.

Bill
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:17 pm

Bill Edmundson wrote: Looks good. This is a real slow part. No two parts are the same and each is a custom fit. And there is no plan to go by.
Bill


Thanks Bill, You sure got that right. So far nearly every piece has had to be custom fitted, sometimes with several iterations before it's right. And then there are the inevitable "Oops, I didn't think about that" moments, requiring something along the lines of your tagline about recoveries.

Today, I wanted to get a partition made to go between the seat box and the head box. Of course, like everything else, it required a bunch of head scratching, trial and error fitting, and "Oops!".

The partition is 1/4" plywood but will be veneered on both sides with 1/8" mahogany and capped on the inboard and top edge with mahogany. Unfortunately, I don't have enough mahogany to create the veneers for both sides so only one side's veneers were made today. I had to plane them down from thicker boards until they were 1/8" thick. First real chance I've had to use my thickness planer, and the real reason I bought it.

I only have one photo for now and it's doesn't show the veneers because the first set will be attached to the forward side. When I get more lumber, I will make the second set. You can also see the 1/4" hardwood that will capping the edge. I will need to steam that piece to get it to conform. I'll be doing that after I get both sides veneered.

IMG_20170910_140630.jpg
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Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby chugalug » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:01 pm

:D Looks interesting,Carl.I've been looking at "pinterest" at all the narrowboat interiors and small houseboat ideas to glean what I can get for "Chug and for the next build.It's really hard for me to come up with original ideas.
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Re: Building The Vera Cruise

Postby mrintense » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:42 pm

The last two weeks have been occupied with working on the partition that goes between the seat box and the head box. This is a piece of 1/4" plywood which is getting veneered on both sides with 1/8" mahogany slats (7 per side). I was only able to get one veneered slat per day completed and several days were occupied by non boat activities. I've gotten one side completed so far but ran out of slats for the second side.

I started working on making more but then ran into problems getting the lumber re-sawn. I am going to try and tackle that again this weekend and hopefully will get the slats made so I can continue with the veneering process.

Here are some updated photos showing the process so far.

IMG_20170911_164658.jpg
Cinder blocks and some plastic wrap and a piece of plywood to apply even pressure.


IMG_20170916_134745.jpg
In process. Each slat had to be fitted after cleaning up the previous slat.


IMG_20170922_171244.jpg
Not installed yet. The edge will be capped with mahogany as well.
Carl
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Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

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