Rampage Update 2017

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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JimmY
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby JimmY » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:43 am

Looking good. We're having a heat wave here in Michigan, so hopefully you get some of it and can keep working.
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

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Mr Hot Rod
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Mr Hot Rod » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:05 pm

Looking good, Denon !

Epoxy doesn't self-level like paint. Roller application creates a heavy film which tends to mottle and requires a lot of sanding to level out the surface.

Have you tried 'tipping' the rolled epoxy with a foam roller ?

Follow the link in this post for more info :

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Nova SS
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Nova SS » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:59 am

looking very sweet Denon. :)

Denon Osterman
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Denon Osterman » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:33 am

Thanks for the kind words everyone!

Jimmy, we're getting a heatwave here too - last week and this week have been the best two of the summer! Looks like it all disappears mid next week though, so this is likely my last weekend on the boat this year doing any major work.

Paul, that's a good idea with the half cut foam roller! I'd tried tipping with a foam brush but it took *forever* and was too thin to really help...I'll have to try the roller. The only caveat I can see is that I actually like getting quite thick coats on, and just building a lot up at a time - then aggressively sanding down with 80 grit until it's half leveled. Epoxying with a roller is very quick, so instead of trying to get lots of thin even coats on, I just cover the boat completely and then sand it flush. But, for the last few layers, I'll definitely give it a try - as those I actually want to be perfectly flat!

In other news the motor mounts I've been trying to get all summer are finally at the polisher, so they should be in soon - at which point I can pick up my new custom fuel tanks as well and add some nice hardware to the back half of the cockpit! I suspect that will be another 2-3 weeks but it will be a nice end to the summer after getting the deck all epoxied - being able to at least cut and screw / mock up some of the other hardware going into the boat.

Cheers,

Denon

DSR
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby DSR » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:22 pm

Hi Denon,

Just thought I'd stop in and let you know that the Rampage is looking fantastic!! :D

Dave
DSR Performance - Home of yet another jet TNT build :D
Codename "Just A Little....."
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Denon Osterman
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Denon Osterman » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:25 pm

Thanks for the quick note Dave! Always appreciated :)

Well, I had an amazing weekend in some of the best weather I think I've ever had in my life. Got quite a bit of work done regardless as looking at the forecast I might only get one weekend left (Canadian Thanksgiving) where it's warm enough to do any epoxy, and I wanted to make as much progress as possible before the season is over.

On Sunday I got two big reliefs cut in the stringers by the dash area, for foot / leg room clearance. I also, sort of, managed to get some backing planks on the butt joints in my decking - and then I sanded the whole deck to prep it for more epoxy (only 1 pass with the random orbit this time). Then on Monday I got two more full coats on the deck and one coat on the stringers where I'd cut them away. Unfortunately I just ran out of medium hardener and had to switch to slow, so between that and the weather I likely won't be able to do more than another coat or two before the year is over unless I get lucky.

Before I got any work done at all though, I was lucky enough to get a picture of the deck in the light. I was careful to properly wash an area this time and get everything as close as possible...so that the real colour (how it looks in person) actually comes through:

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Keep in mind this still isn't perfect, but it's quite close! Varnish will darken things a bit more but once it's out in the full sun it will end up pretty much exactly where I want it :D

Now for the work I did - first up are the reliefs in the stringers. I spent quite a while thinking about how I wanted to do things here. I didn't want any sharp corners or cuts as those create strong stress / weak points, and I wanted to avoid that. The height of the bench top and leg rests / floors also played a big part, and I spent about an hour just sitting on planks of plywood a certain height over the stringers to simulate the bench seating with the floors in!

Ultimately, I decided that cutting the stringers at all behind frame #3 would be a bad idea, as then I wouldn't have a full thickness stringer spanning at least a full frame on each side of the engine. I've also been thinking, based on sizing and such, that the back bench will be more like what you'd find in a sports car - more practical for kids and cargo than big adults! So, the stringers stayed full width through that leg area, and up to the front edge of the front bench. From that point, it takes a steeper curve down initially to gain some clearance from the bench, and then tapers off to the height of the floors by the time it hits where my feet would be, about halfway between frames 4 and 5. By the time you hit frame 5, the stringers are full length again. I then used my serpentine saw and a 1/4" roundover routing bit to round off all of the edges the entire length of the stringers, including the uprights - I then did the corners of the uprights with a file. This should soften off any hard interior edges by the stringers.

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This image shows just how much more legroom you get between the dash and the floor - which was the whole point. It really opens up that area and should make things much more pleasant for the front passengers (and me!), without taking away any real strength in the frame or introducing any sharp corners that could cause a stress point.

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From the side you can get a bit better of an idea of the profile. The profiles in each of the two stringers are *roughly* level with each other, close enough to look it anyways. The initial sharp dip is so that the curve gets beneath the profile of your leg, and then follows it at an offset down to the floor. In other words, my leg should rest a good 2-3" off the stringer for it's whole length from the bench to where my foot rests on the floor.

I also added some backing panels to where the plywood decking was joined. I opted to use raptor nails, which sort of worked. I used quite a bit of thickened epoxy so it should still make a good bond.

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It's a horrible picture and I couldn't quite capture the actual gap in the plywood it's backing, but after some liberal encapsulation I'm hoping these will solidly back the entire sides including all 3 gaps I had between the decking.

Last but not least, I put on two more coats of epoxy. Nearly all of the unevenness left by the gaps between planks, and the sanding / filing I had to do alongside all of the strips to get rid of the epoxy that bled under the tape, is now gone - and I didn't go through anywhere this time. So these last two coats might be all I need to get the whole boat sanded down and level!

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It's horribly out of focus, but the only major issues I had left where a few areas where gaps in the veneer right at the edge of the dash had not allowed any epoxy to build up. My solution was to leave a bit of epoxy in the pot after I was done each coat, wait for it to thicken considerably, and then drip it in. I'll know next time I'm there in two weeks if it worked, but it was looking good at the time - fingers crossed!

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Last but not least, two shots of the front of the boat. It's getting clearer and clearer with each coat as it smoothens out - so with the lights off it's almost hard to see the wood under the fresh epoxy!

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With the lights on, more light hits the boat and the wood itself, so the colour starts to shine a lot more - though you can still see the camera, my hands, and the frame of the roof quite clearly in the reflection.

That's it for now - I'm hoping to get everything in for thanksgiving to do things like drain plugs, motor mounts, gas tanks, etc - and if the weather is nice, maybe the deck with one last coat of epoxy after I sand everything down!

Cheers everyone,

Denon

Denon Osterman
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Denon Osterman » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:15 pm

Well, we had a great Thanksgiving over the past weekend - the weather was perfect on Sunday and Monday (And Saturday wasn't awful), and I had a very nice time up at the cabin seeing friends and family. I also got a little bit of work done on the boat, but between the festivities not as much as I'd hoped...I might be able to get some more work done next weekend or the weekend after based on the weather. I also - *finally* - got my fuel tanks and motor mounts, so there's some pictures of those in here as well.

First and foremost though, the drain plugs! I'd kept putting them off because I was a bit worried about everything, but it got to the point that they were the only thing really left below the water line other than painting the transom, so I should probably get on with it. I decided to use brass garboard plugs because most of the googling I did seems to paint them as the more "permanent" option, i.e. a rubber style plug is better for a dingy but a brass screw in style plug is better for larger boats spending most of their time in the water.

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I snuck the holes in a conveniently placed corner under the pump and beside the intake, right at the back of the hull. There's one hole on each side of the intake.

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I will likely paint the mounts and plugs black with everything installed, as I'm not sure I like the brass right beside the white very much. We'll see how I feel when the time comes.

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Drilling the holes was....scarier than I would have liked. There was no way for me to get the hull at the bottom of the hull but still be level if I drilled from the inside of the hull, as the drill was much larger than the 1" diameter bit I had to use. I also had to use a spade bit instead of a hole saw as I was drilling through ~3" of material, which is too long for any of the hole saws I have. The process I used was to start the spade bit until the spade itself was comfortably in a pocked (so that I wasn't just relying on the point to guide me). Then I switched to my largest twist drill, a 1/2", and drilled the whole way through to give me more accuracy in guiding the initial hole. While I mostly did it because I was lazy, It proved to be a very good idea as I hit screw on both holes that would have wrecked havoc with my spade blade, and was able to drill through them with the twist drill before proceeding with the spade bit. As you can see from the picture, it came out really well - and at pretty much exactly the right location!

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The starboard hole came out very well too - it needs a bit more epoxy filler to match the height of the keel, but will otherwise be pretty much perfect as well. I'm toying with the idea of hoisting up the front of the hull so it's at an angle and just pouring in some epoxy to the right height to fill in the gap with a nice, smooth pad for the water to flow on up to the height of the keel and plug.

The only other work I got done this weekend was to sand the work I did two weeks ago - I decided not to try and epoxy it as I would have only had time for 1 or 2 coats and want to get at least 2-3 more on before one final sand. That being said, I did get quite a bit of sanding done - a full pass with the random orbit to knock down any high spots or bumps, a pass in both "x" and "y" with the long board, this time using 40 grit to get things sanded down more quickly - and a final pass with the random orbit to get rid of (most) of the scratches.

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This got me to the point where pretty much the entire deck, other than the areas around the ash strips, is perfectly flat. The areas around the strips still have a bit of a "valley" effect, but it's starting to break up - so I'm hoping that only one more epoxy (2-3 layers at once) and sand is all I'll need to get the whole boat totally flat.

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This is where the boat stands now in terms of sanding progress - there's still a few little low spots on the deck, and about 50% of the strips still have a valley effect going on...but it's getting extremely close! For a comparison, see the first pass of sanding below and how much rougher it was:

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As you can see, quite a bit of progress has been made on making things smoother!

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Similarly, you can see a huge change after the boats been washed - particularly around the ash strips, and the overall level-ness of the surface. I'm very happy with how it's looking right now!

That's all of the work I got done, but I still got to dream a bit since my fuel tanks and motor mounts finally came in. I'd been waiting on the custom fuel tanks since I found out the stock ones didn't fit back in July - and I'd been waiting on the motor mounts since I first called Glenwood Marine in May (they had to case a new run).

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First up, the fuel tanks. The outboard side of each aligns with the side of the boat (i.e. it's not vertical), to maximize capacity in the tank while minimizing the useful space the tank takes up. I've also placed everything where it should be - the pickups are at the back and inside, the lowest point of the tank, and there's a baffle in the tank by the pickup as well. The sender is right in the middle so it will "run dry" before I'm actually, totally out of gas, and then the vent and fill are near the front and as outboard as possible to sneak under the coamings. Each tank is 15.5 gallons and is made from 1/8" thick aluminium - much thicker than the stock tanks were. The best part is, they only cost $50 more! So, a huge thank you to RDS Aluminium for that :D

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There's an overhead shot - the fill and vent are roughly where the brighter reflection on the deck is.

And, last but certainly not least, the motor mounts! I ended up getting the Glenwood Marine polished 4 point mounting system for big block chevy's, but without the rubber feet (as those were going to be another year!). I thought using rubber mounts would be the way to go for sure, but looking around online on some of the forums most people seemed to think the solid was the way to go? I've decided to do a mix of both - I'm going to largen the bolt holes slightly for rubber inserts, and clamp a section of rubber between the mount and it's foot. This should in theory isolate the entire mount from the boat, without any of the supposed weakness or flex drawbacks associated with the traditional rubber mounting style.

Now, I'm pretty sure my mounts never even entered Glenwood's inventory since I'd been politely bugging them all summer for them, and they showed up in need of a bit of a wash...there was polish residue all over some parts! I got them all cleaned off and mounted to my foam engine block to see how they look, and needless to say, I'm a fan...

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The front mount is effectively a flat plate, so it's pretty much a mirror. *Drools slightly*. It's an incredibly beefy piece of aluminium, the quality is top notch, and I can't wait to get a matching polished aluminium timing chain cover to go with it! On that note, I am a tiny bit confused - does anyone know what the "extra" hole poking up out of the right foot is? The hardware included one *very* long bolt that I presume goes there, but I have no idea what they could possibly be for!

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The rear mount is also stunning - it's really a shame that I'm not doing a V drive so you won't really get to see it as much as the front one! It will be a while before I actually put the little feet on and mount them into the hull, but I'm very excited to have them here...it's a sign that things are getting close!

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Front shot of the engine mocked into the boat with the mounts - also another good shot of what stage the decking is at in terms of smoothness.

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Two 3/4 shots - I'm surprised with how high the engine rides in the mounts. As they are, they're aligned so that they'd mount to the very bottom of the stringers (which is not, to be honest, where I'd want them) - so I'm going to reinforce the stringers with plate through that section.

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From the side - as it is I'm probably going to try and move the engine back as much as possible. The gas tanks are held captive by the frames, but as long as I get a little creative with my oil pan (similar to Paul's yellow one on his Hot Rod) I think I can move the engine back a good 6-8", depending on the exhaust clearance!

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From behind - I do wish you could see the bellhousing more!

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Last but not least, a final progress shot - I might get a few more coats on if I get lucky with the weather but otherwise this might be how it sits for the winter! I will likely try and get an engine sorted out over the winter if I can get the budget for it sorted out, as I'd really like to finish everything for a 2018 launch...and building an engine sounds like a good winter project when I'm not working on my snowmobile! I do also have my dash to make, and my shifter and steering wheel...so if nothing else I'll be back to take some measurements!

Happy Thanksgiving to the other Canadians on the group, and I hope everyone else is having a great fall as well!

Cheers,

-Denon

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jenko
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby jenko » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:02 am

nice ,Is that a plastic big block for fitting purposes? :D

PeterG
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby PeterG » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:36 pm

Nice work! Making good progress.
My guess is that bolt hole on the forward mount is for a belt-driven accessory like an alternator or raw water pump, something like that. Someone here on the forum must know what it's for...
Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.
Griffin's Law: Murphy was an optimist.

Denon Osterman
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Denon Osterman » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:54 pm

Hi Guys, thanks for the kind words!

Yes, it's a plastic block for fitting purposes - not as cheap as I would have hoped, but definitely worth it for the pace of mind and ease of mockup, given this is my "first time" installing an inboard.

Hopefully someone does - I might just call them and ask, but figured someone somewhere on here must know...

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Rich Coey
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Re: Rampage Update 2017

Postby Rich Coey » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:11 pm

I have the same mounts. My alternator is mounted to the tab. The pivot point of the alternator is attached to the tab and the sliding adjustment is mounted to a bracket attached to the front of the head. On my setup the alternator mounting points are reversed from normal, the threaded tab that is usually mounted to the adjustable slot is on the bottom, attached to the motor mount tab using spacers to align with the pulley on the crank. The part of the alternator that is usually used as the pivot point is connected to the slotted bracket.

Here is a photo, the arrow is pointing to the tab. ( kind of hard to see looking down through everything )

Front Motor mount.jpg


Rich


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