Making a monto Carlo wider

Questions about modifying a design

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Steven r
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Making a monto Carlo wider

Postby Steven r » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:33 pm

Hi,
Has anybody done this and how much? Could it be twin screw with 4cycl diesels? I am thinking 2 X 152hp 2.2l Jaguar engines. When chipped over 200 hp. So lots of power and light waight!
Thanks Steve.

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Making a monto Carlo wider

Postby Bill Edmundson » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:43 pm

Steve

This is something I might do. But, I can't tell someone else to do. I'm not sure how I would do it. I no longer have access to AutoCAD and large scale printers and scanners.

Bill
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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Making a monto Carlo wider

Postby Bill Edmundson » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:28 pm

Steve

Another problem with diesels is, Can you get 4000 rpm at the shaft? They are great. Horse power is not the question. Can you get the rpm and torque? (An aside is that you will need counter rotating props.)

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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Steven r
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Re: Making a monto Carlo wider

Postby Steven r » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:38 am

Hi Bill,
In standed form, 153hp @ 3500 rpm, 270lbsft @ 1800rpm. Gearbox, there are some boxes that can be run in reverse,to be checked out? B/W can not. Can I say the performance of your boat is impressive!
Steve.

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Making a monto Carlo wider

Postby Bill Edmundson » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:13 am

I have a ZF63a in the Tahoe. It can run either way.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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Steven r
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Re: Making a monto Carlo wider

Postby Steven r » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:48 am

Hi Bill,
What is the distance of your main stringers? 2ft? I think one issue would be the side decks, and hight? I saw a Burtrum 25 once with twin Perkins 6354 turbos in it, it was tight! May be alloy engine sub frame could be made and bolted through before the skin is put on, and cut in to the main bearers? Down angle gearbox may help on hight?
Steve.

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NAMEngJS
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Re: Making a monto Carlo wider

Postby NAMEngJS » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:58 am

I think this is possible, though few things to consider. The Monte Carlo has an L/B ratio of 3.22/1, but that is max beam assuming chine beam is going to be slightly less the L/B is probably closer to 3.5/1. This is usually a good average for most of these types of vessels. If you know the overall dimensions of the engines and the minimum clearances required you can then see if the two engines would fit in the space allotted.

If widening the beam is required it would also be possible that lengthening the vessel would be warranted in order to maintain the L/B ratio as close as possible as well as maintaining the LCG as close to designed as possible. I would not undertake widening lightly unless you have access to good fairing / modeling CAD software and are at least comfortable using NURBS (Non-Uniform Rational Basis Splines) for modeling fair curves in 3D.

I would really like to see this done if you are willing to attempt it
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds, wake to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers by day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.

Steven r
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Re: Making a monto Carlo wider

Postby Steven r » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:29 am

Hi Bill,
Could it be flipped without a skin? In your openion?
Steve.

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Making a monto Carlo wider

Postby Bill Edmundson » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:03 am

Steven

Generally, engine stringers are set 26" inside face to inside face. When you are sure of your engine choice, you can probably go to their web site and see detailed drawings of the engine and mounts. I printed mine for the Tahoe full size. I then glued them to some very cheap ply and made a 3D model. Can't tell you how much that helped. My mounts turned out to be a little less than 26".

Bill
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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Making a monto Carlo wider

Postby Bill Edmundson » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:08 am

Steve

A cold mold boat, with all the battens probably could be flipped. But, I would feel better if the bottom or side planking were on it.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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Steven r
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Re: Making a monto Carlo wider

Postby Steven r » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:34 am

Hi Nameng
This engine is 24 inch wide, 27 inch long without gearbox this is approx hight don't no at the moment but this fits in baby Jaguars. I think it would need a alloy sub frame or maybe the hole thing main stringers in alloy. I like the look of these boats, but never seen one. So hard!
Steve.

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NAMEngJS
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Re: Making a monto Carlo wider

Postby NAMEngJS » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:54 am

The small width of the engine I believe would allow you to have 2 engines, however as you traverse outboard the amount of usable space under the stringers decreases considerably. That said you might be able to make the main engine stringers out of alloy but I would worry about decreasing the frames closer to the chines. If you have to raise the stringers up you might run into vertical issues.

As with any design situation it is a nasty spiral but you just have to spend the time and think about it and be willing to change many variables. I think with engines as narrow as they are you will have the width. With a down angle transmission you may avoid some of the height issues.

If you are set on using these engines see if you can get a PDF or CAD file of the engines and overlay it on the hull lines. you will have a better idea of potential issues or changes that would have to be made to accommodate.
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds, wake to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers by day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.

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Mr Hot Rod
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Re: Making a monto Carlo wider

Postby Mr Hot Rod » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:57 pm

You may leave the beam as is but stretch the boat to accomodate a staggered engine configuration. The engines could mount to remote v-drives located just behind the cockpit. One engine would be closely coupled while the other engine would be coupled by a torque tube which parallels the first engine and locates the second engine abaft of the first engine.

    Image

For more staggered engine photos, try a Google Image search with the term staggered i/o engines

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Steven r
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Re: Making a monto Carlo wider

Postby Steven r » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:42 pm

Nameng,
First may I say, your caption I did 400miles on Sataday in a Jaguar X type 2.2 D my mind was working overtime! Now what it's :D done!
First thing CAD or anything like it looks amazing , but no good to me, I would not no where to start! Us old timers looked at something and said yes or no? May be How Lucky Do You Feel! HA HA.
What I need is some kind person who is building one to take a few pics and a few measurements only basic to get an idea. Under deck is a concern? Main stringers are a concern in that area ? Engine hatch size? Engines need to come out Easley? Under side deck hight key here.
Steve.

Steven r
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:41 am
Location: UK Dorset

Re: Making a monto Carlo wider

Postby Steven r » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:00 am

Mr Hot Rod,
That looks great, but thinking about it, they staggered engs in Perol boats in the Second World War! I think from memey 60/70s class one power boats were staged 4x1000hp!
In the eightys there was a accident and never returned shame.
I still have a boat that was going to enter a race across the English channel but did not enter in the end. She is fast in heavy weather.
Steve.


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