Console Skif vs Scrambler

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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Baron
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Console Skif vs Scrambler

Postby Baron » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:49 am

Console Skiff vs Scrambler:
-which would be the fastest build?
-Which would be the best in Late afternoon chop on an open bay?
-Which could take the occasional rock hit in some of the rocky rivers around here?
-Would you take either onto the ocean in good weather?

Good morning and happy new year to all. Allot has been said and written about these two boats but few owners have written extensively about their operational experiences. I sold my 238DLV Carolina Skiff a few years ago because i didn't like to launch it alone and also because it was so big that it couldn't be taken all the places i wanted to go. I've been dreaming of a homebuilt for 25 years and its kind of funny, there are allot of plans to choose from, its hard to decide which to build. Furthermore, it obvious, different designs are often purpose built for different conditions. To this point I boat in two extremely different areas, the Delaware river and Barnegat and Raritan Bays, and so its difficult to decide which design best fits my needs. I rarely go out on the ocean but I like to fish around the inlets. While on the River there is a constantly shifting shallow bottom and occasionally the rocks chase after me :D
If you have experience with the above conditions in these boats (or similar boats) please share your adventures and recommendations.
Thanks in advance for your responses.
Baron

Baron
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Re: Console Skif vs Scrambler

Postby Baron » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:05 am

I wish I could spend the whole day everyday fitting and playing with wood. Ironically I own a small sawmill operation but don't produce the types of lumber appropriate for boatbuilding. I've thought that the scrambler would be cool in plank-on-frame. Heavy but cool.
Relating to my initial questions it seems more folks built the Console Skiff than built the Scrambler. is the Console Skiff hull identical to the the Cabin Skiff? If I built the Console could the cabin be added later or are the scantlings heavier for the Cabin Skiff?

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JoeM
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Re: Console Skif vs Scrambler

Postby JoeM » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:15 am

Baron wrote:Console Skiff vs Scrambler:
-which would be the fastest build?
-Which would be the best in Late afternoon chop on an open bay?
-Which could take the occasional rock hit in some of the rocky rivers around here?
-Would you take either onto the ocean in good weather?

Good morning and happy new year to all. Allot has been said and written about these two boats but few owners have written extensively about their operational experiences. I sold my 238DLV Carolina Skiff a few years ago because i didn't like to launch it alone and also because it was so big that it couldn't be taken all the places i wanted to go. I've been dreaming of a homebuilt for 25 years and its kind of funny, there are allot of plans to choose from, its hard to decide which to build. Furthermore, it obvious, different designs are often purpose built for different conditions. To this point I boat in two extremely different areas, the Delaware river and Barnegat and Raritan Bays, and so its difficult to decide which design best fits my needs. I rarely go out on the ocean but I like to fish around the inlets. While on the River there is a constantly shifting shallow bottom and occasionally the rocks chase after me :D
If you have experience with the above conditions in these boats (or similar boats) please share your adventures and recommendations.
Thanks in advance for your responses.
Baron


Hi Baron,

I can go ahead and speak to what I think would be best in late afternoon chop on an open bay and whether to take it onto the ocean in good weather. I will have to let the more experienced builders and those with these designs to speak to the other two questions.

1. Which would be the best in the late afternoon chop on an open bay?

I would expect the console skiff to handle the chop better. The V is much more pronounced and it should cut through chop pretty easily. That' is not to say that the scrambler couldn't handle it. If the Skiff has the raised bulwark option, even better.

2. Would you take either onto the ocean in good weather?

I would not hesitate to take the Console Skiff in the ocean, especially with the raised bulwark option.
The scrambler, in my personal opinion, is not an ocean boat. I would want more freeboard and a more pronounced V at the bow to deal with chop/swell. It could handle most bays though i'm sure.


I wish I could spend the whole day everyday fitting and playing with wood. Ironically I own a small sawmill operation but don't produce the types of lumber appropriate for boatbuilding. I've thought that the scrambler would be cool in plank-on-frame. Heavy but cool.
Relating to my initial questions it seems more folks built the Console Skiff than built the Scrambler. is the Console Skiff hull identical to the the Cabin Skiff? If I built the Console could the cabin be added later or are the scantlings heavier for the Cabin Skiff?


If I am remembering correctly, No the Console skiff hull is the not the same as the Cabin Skiff hull. Very Similar but I think the cabin skiff was slightly longer.
As far as adding a cabin after the fact, yes that can be done. I'm not sure if you can use the same plans for the cabin as in the Cabin Skiff since the two hulls are slightly different. But you could come up with your own design. It's important to do some research and math to ensure that you aren't building in an inherent unbalancing but the great thing about building our own boats is we can usually customize the plans to our needs. Again though, I can't stress enough the need to ensure proper balancing especially in a ~16' boat.

Now for my two cents on how to pick between the two designs. First need more info.

1. Do you boat in one area more often than the other? Rivers > Bays, Bays>Rivers, or Bays=Rivers.
2. What is the purpose of the boat? Fishing, cruising, ski'ing, etc.
3. If you have a significant other, do they prefer one over the other? Have to keep peace in the home or you might need a bigger boat to live aboard... :)
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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Console Skif vs Scrambler

Postby Bill Edmundson » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:27 am

Baron

I think I go with the skiff for all the previously mentioned reasons. But, I think I'd build the Cabin Skiff as a center console. Then you will already have the plans for the cabin.

The CS is stitch and glue which others think is easier. I don't know since I've never done stitch & glue.

Bill
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Baron
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Re: Console Skif vs Scrambler

Postby Baron » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:01 am

Hello Joe and Bill,
Thanks for the Feedback. I didn't realize that the Console Skiff was available with optional high freeboard. I thought that was just an add-on that consumers were adding themselves. That could be kind of a deal breaker. I really like the thought of building the Cabin Skiff as an open Center Console with the option to add a cabin later.
I'm a big Guy (6'2", 280) and don't like helms the are slammed against the gunwales.....I need to be in or near the center.

At the risk of making foolish assumptions is the bottom thicknesses the same on the skiffs the same as the sled? Will they handle the occasional low speed glance off boulders on the river bottom?
Beyond Sailing I haven't any ocean experience. We owned a Pearson Triton that we would sail out of one Inlet, then down the coast and into another inlet. We had a 24' Carolina skiff that was too long for the River and too abrupt for the ocean. To be fair I don't really want to spend time on the ocean but I like to fish around the inlets on the inside of the small sandy inlets of the mid-atlantic coast where it can be wet and Rolly-polly but not usually violent.
I suspect that the Skiff will do much better on very large open rivers like the Hudson and Potomac and also the Chesapeake Bay.
I will study the plans more but wanted to ask if anyone had any first hand experience with these boats.
Thanks for your comments.

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JoeM
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Re: Console Skif vs Scrambler

Postby JoeM » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:28 am

Do you NEED a cabin?

Would a small pilothouse work better? Might be able to have seating for two inside with full walkaround capability. Granted, no berth but a tarp over the top and sleeping bags would work to camp out in.

Reason I ask, if you want the helm in the center there won't be much room for entry into the berth unless you drop in from the forward hatch. The beam on the Cabin Skiff is 6'9". Hatches should be 20-24" minimum for comfortable entry and exit. And you also want to have room to walk around the whole deck i'm sure.

I'll take a stab at your hull question since the forum is a little slow (I gather that winter is the slower time here), but bear in mind that I'm new to the construction aspect and don't KNOW these designs. I am just hoping that by adding my 2 cents it'll help you come to your own conclusion.

It appears that the scrambler hull bottom is two 1/4" sheets for a total of a 1/2" bottom. Being that it's designed as a river runner, I can only assume it's able to take glancing blows from rocks at slower speeds. But I have no working experience with that.

I'm not 100% sure but it appears to me that the hull of the cabin skiff is 3/8" unless they double that up in which case it's 3/4"( and with that, you should be fine). But to me it looks like it is 3/8". Being a little thinner and with 1 ply vs the 2 ply of the Scrambler, the ability of the Cabin Skiff to glance off rocks would be a little less effective than the Scrambler in my opinion. That being said, most of these hulls should be able to take a fair amount of abuse.

Some people have added extra layers onto their hull bottoms to increase structural integrity. I am considering adding some thickness to my True Grit design since I plan on running at night in the ocean and could strike a number of different floating debris and having that extra assurance would give me a little more confidence. It does add more weight and as I said earlier most of these hulls should do fine as designed so it might not be necessary.

For regular plywood hulls, it's fairly easy to add on thickness. You just epoxy on an extra layer and join the sides and the bottom in one of a few techniques illustrated in the Building with Plywood book. I'm not sure how that would be done with a stitch and glue construction as the pieces are cut and joined in a way that i'm not familiar with. I can assume, we all know what that means, that you can add on extra thickness the same as I would once you have your hull formed with your stitch and glue.
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Baron
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Re: Console Skif vs Scrambler

Postby Baron » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:44 am

Boats are like Beer. I've not ever found one I didn't like and two or more were even better :D

I appreciate your comments and hope it will spur further discussion. A family man, I've always had boats where there was more leeway in the operation and durability aspects.

I'm not new to Stitch and Glue and in most cases I prefer it to Plank on frame and other methods. While there are other materials to build from there is a feeling of relaxation that comes over me when working with wood and boats.

I'd also like to hear from JIMBO and Wee Hunk owners as I'm also Impressed with these designs. In the past somewhere I read that one of the advantages of the Garvey Bow is that you actually get the and DWL of a boat 2-3' longer and that there is more buoyancy forward in these designs. I sent a question to Glen-L to ask if the Scrambler was very dry and Gayle answered that it was very much so. I didn't reveal to her that I was comparing the Cabin/Console Skiffs to the harvey-nosed Scrambler. I wish that I would have.

Jumbo Looks fun but is too big for now.

The Wee Hunk Looks very fast to build and is very flat bottomed with a 3/4" bottom. It might be just what I'm after for the shallow waters that I'm always in. I don't prefer the ocean as it is tough on my sissy stomach. I do fish around the inlet which is generally negotiable for smallish and shallow craft but it often gets some large swell. Google "Barnegat Inlet" and see for yourself.

Years ago I rented a Simple 16' Plywood Skiff in Stonington CT. They were all built to be almost stackable if it weren't for the thwarts. They must have turned these out by the dozen and I wish I new whose design they were. They were not planing hulls and had 6hp engines on them. We had so much fun that day and they are the reason I became enamored with water and boats. It was like a revelation.

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Re: Console Skif vs Scrambler

Postby Bill Edmundson » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:56 am

Baron

If you go with the skiff you can laminate another 1/8" layer on the bottom. It would take some creative clapping. But, it could be done. It won't work out to try to start with 1/2" ply or 1/4" ply.

Bill
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Baron
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Re: Console Skif vs Scrambler

Postby Baron » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:12 pm

Yes, Bill As I understand, the stresses put on the ply to bend them around and wire them up is substantial. And that any other thicknesses could add stresses beyond reason.
These are not self-bailing boats? Would one install removable grate floors?

Baron
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Re: Console Skif vs Scrambler

Postby Baron » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:56 pm

Is it common practice to sheath both sides of the planking? Or does it just get epoxied and varnished? Or merely painted/varnished?

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Re: Console Skif vs Scrambler

Postby Bill Edmundson » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:55 pm

Baron

Typically only the outside. I'm not sure on stitch and glue. If you want extra abrasion resistance use Dynel fabric instead of glass.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

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Re: Console Skif vs Scrambler

Postby 283 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:16 pm

From what I’ve seen on various forums most stitch and glue plans call for glass in and out. IDK about the CS though

Many people who want extra strength for the occasional rock or if they are overpowering the hull add an extra layer of 17oz biax or 1708 to the exterior. Seems easier then using thicker ply.
Mike

Baron
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Re: Console Skif vs Scrambler

Postby Baron » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:46 pm

hello 283 and Bill. i had wondered about using dynel. The thing is i was also thinking about using either kevlar or graphite on the bottom since i'll be beaching it in sand allot and the occasional pebble strewn riverbank. Can Graphite be used over Dynel?

joe I doubt that i'll need a cabin but time will tell. i want a small simple craft.

my shift key just quit.

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JoeM
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Re: Console Skif vs Scrambler

Postby JoeM » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:20 pm

Baron wrote:my shift key just quit

Might be the fumes from a poly stain i'm using for a DVD shelf my wife asked me to build but I found that hilarious for some reason. And I really don't know why.
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JoeM
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Re: Console Skif vs Scrambler

Postby JoeM » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:13 pm

I killed your thread with my nonsense, I apologize. For some reason I was picturing your shift keys just up and walking out and found it funny and had to say so. In retribution the world decided I needed to be taken down a peg for some reason. This morning I was stepping over a baby gate, temporarily put up to keep the dogs out of the hallway, when I tripped on it. Would have been fine, had my hands out to catch me and everything, no big. Unfortunately we have a more permanent baby gate with an actual gate in it that was open about 3 feet in front of this temporary one (they were on opposite sides of the door to my wifes office which is why we had two so close together). So instead of hitting the floor with my hands, the right side of my rib cage absorbed all of the force from the metal gate. Couple cracked ribs, what fun. Only good part of this was that I forgot to grab my coffee so I didn't end up spilling hot coffee on myself.
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