Michael's ZIP

Outboard designs up to 14'

Moderator: ttownshaw

User avatar
mrintense
Posts: 2907
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:22 am
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby mrintense » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:17 pm

Mike, it looks just fine. Believe me (and I am sure you already know this), when the average person sees your finished boat, the wows are going to come out!!
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

User avatar
BarnacleMike
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:47 am
Location: North Georgia / Chattanooga Area
Contact:

Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby BarnacleMike » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:59 pm

Thanks, Carl!

I'm sure you're right. It would probably look just fine as-is.

I was not expecting such a high-contrast, "striped" look to the dash beam when I coated it with epoxy. The lighter shades are almost as light as the epoxy-coated cherry.

Tonight I tried a test piece with some stain. I used Minwax Express Color mahogany stain, since Bob Brandenstein had some good luck with it. One half of the test piece has 1 coat of stain, and the other half has two coats. Then I coated it with a layer of epoxy. Below is a photo of it next to the dash beam for comparison. The two-coat side looks less contrasty to my eye... and it adds a bit of red to the color. I'm still on the fence... I don't know if I'll stain the dash or not.

I did notice that the Minwax website says the Express Color Stain is "interior use only." However, Bob used it on his cover boards, and I believe his boat is holding up fine.

I do like the look of the Faria Euro Beige gauges on the cherry inlay!
Attachments
IMG_6639.jpg
IMG_8967.jpg
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

User avatar
hoodman
Posts: 1829
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:48 am
Location: Lafayette, IN

Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby hoodman » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:52 pm

I like the contrasty striped wood, but that's just personal preference. It will look good either way I'm sure.

User avatar
vupilot
Posts: 3361
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:36 am
Location: Indy
Contact:

Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby vupilot » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:20 am

I've been really happy with no stain. I like the single coat stain sample you did also.

TomB
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:07 pm
Location: Holland, MI

Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby TomB » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:45 am

Be sure to check adhesion of the epoxy over water based stain.

User avatar
mrintense
Posts: 2907
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:22 am
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby mrintense » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:35 am

Mike, if you do go the the stain route, here are a couple of lessons I learned the hard way. First off, be sure to give the stain several days to cure if you go with gel or oil based stain. I never had any luck with getting a good finish with water based stain so I gave up on it. But perhaps I still wasn't doing it correctly. But epoxy will fish eye if you apply it too soon over stain.

Anyway, the second lesson, and this is important. If you plan on encapsulating the stain, you will almost certainly have to do a smooth sanding afterwards. Be sure to put an adequate amount of epoxy resin down (but don't over do it) and when you sand, use a light touch, especially on the corners and edges. I ended up having to touch up stain several times after the sanding.

I've heard that using a heat gun to pop any bubbles in the epoxy works to get a smooth finish, but so far my one effort with this didn't do any better than normal curing. The main point here, take the time to test these techniques out.
Carl
a.k.a. Clipper

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise named "Some Other Time"

Clipper's Vera Cruise Build

User avatar
BarnacleMike
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:47 am
Location: North Georgia / Chattanooga Area
Contact:

Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby BarnacleMike » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:23 pm

Carl,

Thank you for those insights. If I recall correctly from your blog, you did quite a bit of testing of different stains when you were finishing the transom on your Vera Cruise.

On the epoxy adhesion... it looks like a common factor for getting good adhesion is to let the stain set and dry for a long time. I stumbled across a pretty good article on the topic. They were testing West System epoxy only, over different types of stains. Even though I'm not using West System, this still may be a good reference: http://epoxyworks.com/index.php/epoxy-adhesion-over-stains/

Another thought had occurred to me. I could try just setting the frame out in the sunlight for a few hours. Mahogany is sensitive to light & will darken when exposed to sunlight. Just a thought.
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

User avatar
Bill Edmundson
Posts: 11108
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:45 am
Location: Birmingham, AL, USA
Contact:

Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby Bill Edmundson » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:39 pm

Mahogany is supposed to darken with exposure to ammonia fumes. And, yes it will darken in sunlight, slowly.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

User avatar
BarnacleMike
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:47 am
Location: North Georgia / Chattanooga Area
Contact:

Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby BarnacleMike » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:10 pm

According to the information in the Epoxy Works article, the Minwax Gel Stain passed their adhesion test after both a 24 hour dry and a 4-day dry. So, I wound up using the Minwax Gel Stain. I tried both the "Mahogany" and "Red Elm" colors on a piece of scrap mahogany, and wound up choosing the "Red Elm" color. Although the sample swatch in the store was lighter than the "Mahogany," on my board it produced a darker color with a stronger red hue. It also seems to darken the highlights proportionately more. (It was the brightness of the highlights that was really bothering me.)

I'm going to give it at least 4 days to dry before adding any epoxy. In the meantime, I'm gonna pray that this goes well.
Attachments
IMG_0430.jpg
Sanded, and cleaned multiple times with denatured alcohol.
IMG_9768.jpg
A "liberal amount of stain, applied evenly" with a foam brush
IMG_6921.jpg
After wiping off the excess stain
Last edited by BarnacleMike on Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

User avatar
BarnacleMike
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:47 am
Location: North Georgia / Chattanooga Area
Contact:

Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby BarnacleMike » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:53 am

The 4-day drying time on the stain is almost up. So, I could be applying epoxy to it as early as tomorrow.

I know that it's best to clean bare wood with denatured alcohol before applying epoxy. What about stained surfaces? I would think denatured alcohol would damage the stain. Is there something better to use? Rubbing alcohol, perhaps?

I haven't touched the stained surface, and I don't believe the kids have either. So, there shouldn't be any skin oils, etc. on it. Perhaps a good vacuuming would suffice. I want the finish to look as good as I can reasonably make it.
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

User avatar
Jimbob
Posts: 563
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:07 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby Jimbob » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:56 am

Hi Michael,
I like to use Naptha to wipe down before finish. It isn't oily and doesn't dry as fast as alcohol. One thing you don't want to use are tack cloths, they can leave residue that may cause things not to stick. If your stain is clean with no dust, I think I would leave it alone.
Jim

P.S. Great looking dash!
Jim Neeley
Building a Barrelback in Sacramento, CA
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=28089#p172969

User avatar
chugalug
Posts: 1195
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:01 pm
Location: top of mn.

Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby chugalug » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:40 am

:D you got to be really careful with your used stain rags.By that,I mean don't leave them out on a wood surface or anywhere else that's flammable.THEY CAN and WILL START ON FIRE ON THEIR OWN.i left one on my tablesaw ,went in for dinner,came back to a pile of ashes.Thank GOD, the saw was metal.
Working on regular-sized Bo-Jest


"If it's not crooked,It's not mine

User avatar
BarnacleMike
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:47 am
Location: North Georgia / Chattanooga Area
Contact:

Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby BarnacleMike » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:18 am

I'll be careful with the stain rags, then! Admittedly, I chuckled a bit when I read that warning on the can... but I'll take it a lot more seriously now. Thank you.

Jim, Thank You. If my dash turns out half as nice as your workmanship on your Barrelback, I will be very happy!
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

User avatar
BarnacleMike
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:47 am
Location: North Georgia / Chattanooga Area
Contact:

Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby BarnacleMike » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:30 am

Well, the moment of truth came last night. After five days of drying time, I put the first coat of epoxy on the stained wood.

I cleaned the rest of the frame with denatured alcohol, but only vacuumed the dash. To Carl's point about sanding, I applied the epoxy pretty generously with a foam brush. This should give me enough depth to withstand a light sanding before the next coat.

This morning, the epoxy has only been curing for 12 hours. The appearance of the wood is about what I'd hoped. The "striped" grain pattern is still visible, but the contrast is greatly reduced. The highlights are a good bit darker, and the dash overall is a little darker. The redness in the stain popped a little more under the epoxy, and the color overall doesn't look out-of-place with the unstained pieces.

So here's my next question: Now that the epoxy is on it, will it be safe to clean the sanded epoxy surface with denatured alcohol, as on the previous unstained pieces?
Attachments
IMG_5913.jpg
IMG_0731.jpg
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com

User avatar
BarnacleMike
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:47 am
Location: North Georgia / Chattanooga Area
Contact:

Re: Michael's ZIP

Postby BarnacleMike » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:19 pm

After sanding the first epoxy coat, I cleaned it off with a little denatured alcohol. I only used a small amount, and that seemed to work fine.

I applied a second coat of epoxy, and I'm now in the process of sanding that. The Silvertip epoxy seems to be adhering to the stained dash just fine.

With the work on the frames almost done, it will soon be time to start building the zip in "3D." About a week ago, I built the stringers for my construction form. I built the supports from scrap left by a contractor. It's pressure-treated... but it should suffice for holding up the construction form. I'll put it all together once I get the Utility out of the garage.

I don't really want to store the Utility outside, but it's the easiest option. I ordered a semi-custom boat cover for it this week. I'm looking forward to trying it out.
Attachments
IMG_6589.jpg
IMG_6177.jpg
-Michael

Built Utility "Perseverance" — completed Aug 2016
Currently building a Zip
My Boatbuilding Blog: http://barnaclemikeboats.blogspot.com/
My Website of Boat Photos: https://michaelsmaddox.wordpress.com


Return to “Small outboards”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests