Painting with SuperMarine - Rookie needs your help

Iggy · **Posted:** Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:05 am

Hi Folks,

Looks like I should be able to put some paint on the bottom of my Malahini this weekend. Weather is looking good (Sunny, 24oC / 75oF), will be painting in my Garage, no rain expected. I am painting my bottom hull and up the sides a few inches (over my spray rails) to where I want my boostripe. My sides will be bright finished and I will clear coat them later at once I am done my deck (do them both at the same time).

I fiberglassed (6oz) the entire hull, fill epoxied with 4 coats, then sanded/feathered/filled edges and re-applied a 5th & 6th coat of epoxy. I was planning on sanding down the hull once more tonight (which is why I did 2 extra coats) before painting to smooth out the epoxy surface.

I bought Super Marine Paint for my boat. My boat will be on a trailer the vast majority of the time, in fresh water for weekends mostly.. so I am not using anti-fouling paint.

I bought the entire paint system from Super Marine including:
SM-1000 Single Stage Urethane Paint
SM-664D Etching Primer
SM-101 Levelling Thinner
SM-695 Etching Cleaner

Ok.. I am an ABSOLUTE PAINT ROOKIE.. no experience at painting anything other than a wall with latex and a roller/brush. I am not looking for a showroom shine because I don't have the talent to realistically make that happen.. plus this is a working boat.. its going to see rocks, docks, sand, gravel, you name it.. I will probably bump into it at some time.

However, I don't want to do a messy or improper job either. But because I am a rookie.. I need to plan ahead and ask questions, so I am hoping you veteran painters can help me out, particularly in the process.

Ok, this is the process I think I need to do:

1. Sand the hull, scuff it basically. 120 grit, as suggested by the paint mfg.
2. Dust it off.. clean the garage as best as I can to remove the dust.
3. Give it a quick wash.. again to remove dust.
4. Mark and mask the paint line. I will be using the 'blue' 3M masking tape.
5. Clean surface using the Etching Cleaner solution.
6. Roll on the 1st coat of primer & allow it to dry.
7. Sand the 1st coat of primer (220 grit).
8. Clean the surface with a clean cloth & paint thinner.
9. Roll on the 2nd coat of primer & allow it to dry.
10. Sand the 2st coat of primer (220 grit).
11. Clean the surface with a clean cloth & paint thinner.
12. Mix & thin the paint, roll on the 1st coat, allow it to dry.
13. Sand the 1st coat of paint (220 grit).
14. Clean the surface with a clean cloth & paint thinner.
15. Mix & thin the paint, roll on the 2nd coat, allow it to dry.
16. Buff Sand if necessary.

Thats what I think I need to do.. but I certainly would appreciate some confirmation/tips/warnings or whatever comments you have to give me so that I can get the results I am hoping to have with no 'oups' moments.

ttownshaw · **Posted:** Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:25 am

You got a pretty good grasp of it! Below is what I did differently.

1. Sand the hull, scuff it basically. 120 grit, as suggested by the paint mfg.
2. Dust it off.. clean the garage as best as I can to remove the dust.
3. Give it a quick wash.. again to remove dust.
4. Mark and mask the paint line. I will be using the 'blue' 3M masking tape.
5. Clean surface using the Etching Cleaner solution. I bought some but never used it - I don't think you'll need it either. Use denatured alcohol and some tack cloths
6. Roll on the 1st coat of primer & allow it to dry.
7. Sand the 1st coat of primer (220 grit). If you apply the second coat within the reapplication time you don't need to sand. In other words you will get a chemical bond instead of a mechanical bond. The time to reapply is shown on the can.
8. Clean the surface with a clean cloth & paint thinner. If you need to clean don't use the thinner on the surface. Use denatured alcohol on tack cloths.
9. Roll on the 2nd coat of primer & allow it to dry.
10. Sand the 2st coat of primer (220 grit). Don't need to sand if you apply within the time to apply finish coats listed on the can.
11. Clean the surface with a clean cloth & paint thinner. Use Denatured Alcohol or just a tack cloth.
12. Mix & thin the paint, roll on the 1st coat, allow it to dry. Thin the first coat at least 20% (I thinned as much as 30% on the bottom with very little orange peel). Use the highest quality, shortest nap roller you can get and apply in very, very, very thin coats. Also, mix up no more than a pint or so...it goes a long way once the roller is wet
13. Sand the 1st coat of paint (220 grit). Don't need to sand if you apply within the reapplication period.
15. Mix & thin the paint, roll on the 2nd coat, allow it to dry. I applied 3 coats to the bottom. If I do it again I'll thin the coats even more and apply 4 or more coats.
16. Buff Sand if necessary.

One other note...the etching primer kinda eats the adhesive on the blue tape (yep - I found that out the hard way). As soon as you can remove the tape then do so. Make absolutely sure you have a very good breather mask (little dust mask just won't cut it). The paint is strong but the primer is hell's kitchen! Be prepared to have the stink around for a few days.

You'll do fine! Take some pictures when you can. If you have any questions you can give me a call (I'll PM you my cell) since I'll be somewhat out of pocket again this weekend.

Iggy · **Posted:** Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:36 pm

I was wondering if I needed to buy/use the etching cleaner.. seems like its probably used on old/used surfaces rather than a brand new/sanded/clean epoxy surface. It was not much money.. and I have another project I will probably use it on, so no loss there.

The primer eating the masking tape is a bit of an obstacle. I planned on taping down to where my bootstripe will be.. then prime it.. then masking 1" over (once dry) so I can roller the green bottom paint.

I have a quality half-mask I've been using for sanding. I need to see if I can find the appropriate filters for chemicals.. I work in the Oil & Gas industry and often use filters for Organic Compounds.

I might end up sleeping on the basement couch if it stinks like you are describing.

If I can avoid sanding between coats.. like I did when filling the fiberglass layers with epoxy.. I sure will.

I need to see if I can find a source of Denatured Alcohol... how about Vinegar .. would that work?

vupilot · **Posted:** Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:55 am

Iggy,

I did very, very similar to Bill. Im glad he was online to set you straight on the re-application without sanding and hopefully saved you lots of time.

I did 2 primer coats and the first color coat within about 1.5-2hrs of each other with no sanding in between, just dupli-color tack rag between coats. Then let those coats cure a day or two and VERY, lightly sand between subsequent color coats.

The only thing Bill stated that did not work for me was that I could not get good results thinning more than 10%. Anything more than that and I would get a crinkled or marbled look or dimples like a golf ball. I had the best results thinning 6-7%. I spoke with the Supermarine Tech department about thinning and they said thinning really wasnt necessary and that they got best results with only 5% thinning. In fact my color coats have no thinner. My SuperMarine clear coats are thinned about 7%.

Oh and about the tape. I used electrical tape and the primer wont eat it and it leaves a very crisp line. The green masking tape wont be eaten by the primer either.

Look forward to hearing how it goes and seeing the pics. Good Luck.

-Chris

Blair · **Posted:** Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:29 pm

Hi Iggy,
You may already be aware, but if not: Denatured Alcohol = Methyl Hydrate= gas line antifreeze. It's available at home centers, paint stores, Can Tire...
Blair

Iggy · **Posted:** Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:19 pm

Blair,

Thanks.. I saw Methyl Hydrate at the store today but I just was not certain what it was.. I suspected it was Denatured Alcohol.. now I know.

I got 2 coats of primer and 1 top-coat done just now. I used hot water and a little bit of vineagar to clean the epoxy sawdust.. seemed to work fine. I will get some alcohol for tomorrow.. as I will be giving it a light sanding and 2nd top coat.

So far so good. I am VERY happy I am wearing my mask with filter cartridges as that stuff is pretty wicked. I had no troubles with breathing at all with the mask on... once I took it off.. I got out in a hurry.

I will have pictures tomorrow on my thread. Looking really good so far.

Thanks for all the help/tips... definately sped me up.

vupilot · **Posted:** Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:16 pm

whuoooops, sorry, guess I forgot to mention the insane amount of fumes the 664d primer puts off. Its pretty nasty stuff. The color paint is much more friendly to the brain cells, as I am sure you noticed.

Glad you are pleased, which rollers are you using? My favorite was the Shur-Line 6" white foam ones sold at most major retailers. Dave L turned me on to them and they were great.

Iggy · **Posted:** Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:06 pm

I am using the 'hot dog' rollers as well. Seems to do the trick.

I knew about he fumes.. I have a mask I've been using for dust and had the carbon filters as well for the paint, so its a quick swap-out.

I was able to do all the priming with the garage door open as it was a warm day. But the top-coat I needed to close the door and put the furnace on.. so when I took off the mask it was very strong, good thing I was done and heading for the door.

Bruce Dow · **Posted:** Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:13 am

Hi Iggy.

If you are waiting to do the bright sides at the same time as your deck, have you thought about interim UV protection for the epoxy?

(I know you are heading for about six months of near total darkness up there (grin))

upspirate · **Posted:** Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:19 am

Bruce, does that matter if the boat is indoors?

Never thought of it,but the sunlight clouds it outside,will it cloud unprotected indoors too over a short( 1 yr ) time?

Iggy · **Posted:** Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:41 am

The boat is inside my garage.. so it has no direct UV exposure... except perhaps where I have a window that gets a bit of sunlight.

Hmmm you know.. I think I will mask my poly sheets to cover the sides.. it will protect from UV as well as accidental drips while I am working on the top-deck.

Iggy · **Posted:** Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:14 am

I have my 2nd top-coat on now. I didn't have a chance to sneak into the garage this morning to see how it is looking so that will have to wait till after work.

I am thinking about my tape.. as in... when I remove it I don't want it to peel back the paint at the edge also. The tape is obviously still on right now, as I am pondering a 3rd coat.. depending on how this coverage looks.

When is the best time/process to remove that masking tape... is it in 7 days after everything is hard cured.. do I use a razor/knife to score the paint line above the tape... or do I just peel it off slowly?

Onplane · **Posted:** Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:34 am

All,

I too will be going the same route as Iggy, so I also had some questions that are probably right on par with this thread.

1) The "Green" tape that Chris talked about... I assume this is the new "Frog Tape" that is sold in Home Depot / Lowe's supposedly guarantees no bleed through under the tape? That was what I was planning on using as an alternate to the common blue painters tape. Just want to make sure it isn't eaten by the primer... :shock:

2) My sides will be finished bright as well, and I am concerned now about the interim protection as I don't plan on doing any varnishing work until the top deck on mine is finished as well. What would you suggest to do in the meantime to protect them? Maybe just one coat of varnish? Does varnish have a shelf life (concern for buying some, doing a single coat, letting it sit, and then go bad...)

3) I'm with Iggy... how do you remove the paint tape after cure without lifting it? At home, as Iggy says, you just score and peel, but do you really want to score here?

ttownshaw · **Posted:** Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:51 am

Well, the primer really didn't eat the tape...just kinda melts the adhesive on the back of it leaving a gooey mess when you peel the tape.

1 - Yes, Green Frog tape is better
2 - You shouldn't be upside down long enough to worrry too much about it. After glass, skeg, paint, it's flip time!!!! If you feel so compelled you can leave the plastic (or other masking material) taped on until you are ready to flip.
3 - I peeled the tape as soon as the last finish coat was tacky and didn't have any problems with the paint lifting. You can also carefully build up layers of tape and peel one layer after each coat...I wouldn't mess with it though. Just take your time peeling the tape and touch up if necessary.

vupilot · **Posted:** Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:57 am

Iggy,

I removed mine after the 3rd coat while the coat was still tacky. If you do it while its wet the edge will not be so sharp, it will cure with a softer, rounded but still clean tape line with less of a hard ridge if you remove the tape about halfway through the coats cure time.

I wound up doing a 4th coat and it was easy to reapply new masking on the original tapeline and again removed it while the coat was halfway through hardening.

Charles,

I didnt use the frog tape brand but yes that should work just the same.

Glen-L.com

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