Help Get Ethanol out of Premium Gasoline

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John B
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Help Get Ethanol out of Premium Gasoline

Postby John B » Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:48 pm

We need ethanol-free gasoline for our boats, old cars/bikes, airplanes, chain saws, etc.

Keep Pure Gas is a newly-formed coalition striving to convince Congress and the E.P.A. to ban the use of ethanol in Premium gas.
Please visit the website http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/keep-pure-gas/ to learn more about this issue and sign their petition.

http://pure-gas.org is their website which tells you where you can currently find ethanol-free gasoline.

Thank you.
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting as to what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result of the vote.

upspirate

Re: Help Get Ethanol out of Premium Gasoline

Postby upspirate » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:35 pm

Thanks for posting this John.

I've been bitten with my outboards,and probably have to go through it again after non-use this year

jcallends
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Re: Help Get Ethanol out of Premium Gasoline

Postby jcallends » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:44 am

Somebody will have to inform me what is wrong with alcohol? It's used in Indy race cars, its used in top fuel dragsters, it's used in 2 cycle engines reving over 25,000 RPM, all in the name of more power, and besides all that if you drink it all your problems will be solved.

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Roberta
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Re: Help Get Ethanol out of Premium Gasoline

Postby Roberta » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:15 am

I signed the petition, but it was curious that I was directed to another petition regarding "no big oil in a wildlife area". I'm not sure I agreed with that one.

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

Moeregaard
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Re: Help Get Ethanol out of Premium Gasoline

Postby Moeregaard » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:38 am

Alcohol (ethanol/methanol) in gasoline causes a number of problems in older outboards. It's not an octane or lead issue, as these motors were designed to run on 80-octane fuel, and lead isn't required in two-cycle engines. Crankcase sealing is important in any two-cycle engine, and one of the first areas alcohol causes problems is with the crankcase seals, which were never designed for it, and fuel-pump diaphragms. Methanol will also react with any brass components and lead to corrosion issues. Also, alcohols have a lower energy density than gasoline, so fuel economy and power output suffer when compared to pure gasoline.

Many people have resorted to running 100LL avgas, but finding an airport FBO who's willing to sell it "over the counter" is darn near impossible, at least in California, and the high lead content can lead to piston-ring problems. The closest thing to "pure" gasoline would be the old, 80-octane avgas, but I don't think the refineries are making it now. If we could get them to start making this stuff again I think we'd be OK.

-Mark Shipley
A boat is just a wooden box with no right angles.

upspirate

Re: Help Get Ethanol out of Premium Gasoline

Postby upspirate » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:52 am

Another problem with ethanol is that in an open-vent fuel system as expansion and contraction occurs with temp changes,air/moisture is drawn into the tanks and condenses. The alcohol absorbs this water,and when a critical point is reached,it falls out of solution along with the alcohol and alters the chemical composition of the fuel rendering it useless....also the fuel pickup being at the bottom picks up the alcohol/water and won't burn.

It will also dissolve the old hoses and carb parts on engines that weren't designed for ethanol.

It Also dissolves the resin in fiberglass fuel tanks resulting in clogged fuel systems.

Late model,closed fuel systems in autos that have high turnover fuel rates don't have these problems.

Other than that it's OK.......as long as you don't want as good performance and fuel mileage!!! :?
An older E-10 thread:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7075&hilit=ethanol

Another site:

http://www.fuel-testers.com/marine_boat ... blems.html

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John B
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Re: Help Get Ethanol out of Premium Gasoline

Postby John B » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:13 am

Roberta Hegy wrote:I signed the petition, but it was curious that I was directed to another petition regarding "no big oil in a wildlife area". I'm not sure I agreed with that one.

Roberta

Roberta,
I was unaware of the "no big oil" link on the site. I wouldn't sign that one either; one of the big reasons fuel prices are so high is that our country isn't accessing our own existing oil reserves and instead we're purchasing oil from countries that wish us harm (or are, at least, indifferent to whether we are harmed).
Thanks for pointing it out.
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting as to what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the result of the vote.

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Roberta
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Re: Help Get Ethanol out of Premium Gasoline

Postby Roberta » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:01 am

I just thought it odd that the same sight that would have a petition for ethanol free gas would also promote a ban on our own country's oil exploration/production. Let's all hope they don't use our vote for ethanol free gas in ways we did not intend.

Thanks John,

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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ttownshaw
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Re: Help Get Ethanol out of Premium Gasoline

Postby ttownshaw » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:29 am

John,

We still have some stations around here that are 100% gas...no ethanol. It costs anywhere from the same to about 10% more than ethanol...when I use 100% in my truck I get about 15% better fuel economy. Fortunately, two of these stations are within a couple miles of my house so, at least for the time being, I'm set! I agree though...get that stuff out of premium gas!
Bill

I told my wife we needed a three-car garage for my projects...she told me to ask her for permission next time before I buy a house.
http://www.unitybuild.net

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Roberta
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Re: Help Get Ethanol out of Premium Gasoline

Postby Roberta » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:16 pm

In East Troy, WI we have a Shell Station that sells premium with no ethanol and a Road Ranger Station that sells regular with no ethanol. I agree about the better mileage. I also get about 15% better mileage using real gas.

But the tree huggers are trying to make it so all of WI has to have the blended gases. Hope they fail.

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

Jerry Lindamood
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Re: Help Get Ethanol out of Premium Gasoline

Postby Jerry Lindamood » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:30 pm

Last year I had one station with real gas, now it has the crap in it's gas. All that Ethanol did for us , was to make the price of food go up. My Mercury guy say's to pour it out, if it's more than 30 day's old. It's just a sad situation .

John K
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Re: Help Get Ethanol out of Premium Gasoline

Postby John K » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:40 am

Here is what I have been told about using ethanol in 2 cycle engines. Only use medium grade and not regular and use Sea Foam as a stabilizer. Sea Foam does not react with the alcohol and form the sludge like some other brands.

We have one station here that sells real gas. That is where I fill up boat and lawn equipment.

Tom Drake
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Re: Help Get Ethanol out of Premium Gasoline

Postby Tom Drake » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:25 pm

Our local Toyota dealer identified the methanol content in the premium gas my wife uses as the culprit in causing performance problems. They recommended the additive Star tron which is used in marine use too. Almost immediately, performance improved and after checking, we found a significant increase in milage. If the reference to 2 cycle engines that run up to 25,000 rpm's is based on model engines, you must take into consideration that at the end of usage the tanks are emptied of fuel and it is recomended that an "after run" oil be cycled thru to protect the bearings from corrosion.

John K
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Re: Help Get Ethanol out of Premium Gasoline

Postby John K » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:41 am

Tom Drake wrote: If the reference to 2 cycle engines that run up to 25,000 rpm's is based on model engines, you must take into consideration that at the end of usage the tanks are emptied of fuel and it is recomended that an "after run" oil be cycled thru to protect the bearings from corrosion.


I always leave gas with Sea foam in the carb. Each engine make has different requirements for storage. I think Johnson list it as short term storage. I sometimes (if I remember) to squirt WD40 in the cylinders. That way you do not have to turn over the engine. It also burns off when you use the engine with little residue.

I do the same thing with all my lawn/garden motors.

sschefer
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Re: Help Get Ethanol out of Premium Gasoline

Postby sschefer » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:59 pm

O.K. I hesitated to respond to this because more have done the complaining rather than the research. No offense, it's common practice it today's world.

1. Ethanol will damage older hoses and rubber components of outboard motors. If you find yourself needing to switch to Ethanol fuels, either upgrade your gaskets/hoses or get a new motor. That's pretty simple. All the gaskets, seals and hoses I order when I rebuild outboards are Ethanol safe. I can't even order ones that aren't.

2. Yamaha voids their warranty's if fuels with over 15% Ethanol is used. Why? Because the USCG requires and the ABYC recommends that all fuel tanks be vented to open air. Because of normal expansion and contraction the tanks breathe and this air exchange creates an opportunity for moisture to enter the tank. The higher the concentration of ethanol the greater the risk. Fuel/Water separating filters are not totally efficient nor are they checked as often as needed. If excessive amounts of water are allowed to enter the engine, damage will occur.

If you want to complain to someone, call the coast guard and tell them to get off thier rears and research a closed loop pressurized fuel system for boats like the one that's in your car.

Also, Octane is a rating and not something that's in the gas. You cannot change octane rating with off the shelf additives. Most outboards require at least 87 octane fuel and some require 89 or better. Some of the ones I build need 104-106 and the owners have to buy it in 50 gal drums at 25.00 a gal or more. The point is that as long as the fuels octane rating is as stated it doesn't matter if it's got ethanol, Budweiser or Coca-Cola in it.
Steve Schefer
Santa Rosa, Ca.

New Years Resoluiton - Never leave something for someone else to do when I should be doing it myself.


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