Glen-L.com

Good looking well aligned stuff Oyster.
If I did that with a Coping saw and a Sawzall.....

That's what I would think to be the "hot set-up", but they're not called out on the plans except to "place 5-6" apart" and "cut in at time of installation". I'd be afraid to guess where they belong on each frame, program and cut them only to find out they're in the wrong place.
I can envision a hand held circular saw to start the notch, but I'd think a jig saw would be awkward to remove the block. Gotta be a better way?

Even if you do nothing but cut frames from one piece of plywood, you need to be accurate in your programming. Keep in mind even a carpenter's pencil line thickness transfers to a miscut of 1/4" or more when its transfered to plywood for cutting with any saw to fit full form jigs or one component bottom frame and deck timber. We do this all the time on square ended dory designs. You need to be really accurate or all your work and money is wasted. Just saying..... Do you have any experience in 3D programming for cutting parts on a CNC machine?

Been there, done that.....This can be done if you have enough time and patience with no problems at all.

Quote Myself


I look at these almost prefect frames lined up. I'm sorry. It just doesn''t please my eyes like a timber frame.

Bill

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Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

I've found that the amazing high quality of this particular tightly veneered birch plywood has an elegant beauty all it's own, especially after it has been precisely machined with flowing inner radiuses which will also enhance structural integrity. The real beauty (hopefully) of the boat will cover most of the framing in any event.
No help in the stringer notching step?

Grampa Steve

Well if you are CNCing the plywood, notches as has been shown in a couple of posts are also preprogrammed into the setup, or normally thats the way it is done. Short of that,, take a batten after you get the boat setup and lay them uniformly aligned and mark the cutouts and cut them by hand with a quality jig saw or even a palm router if you are experienced in free handing one.

I've used the Baltic Birch (also sold as Russian birch and a name or two that I can't think of) for cabinet work and agree - it's very "pretty" stuff for plywood and in theory it should be (stronger) overall, because of it's additional plys, compared to other sheets of similar thickness.

One other note on using this as frame material and the potential lack of fastenability in the endgrain - if you follow WEST techniques for bonding, you can do so without the use of any fasteners - and while I personally still wouldn't go with plywood frames (agree that solid stock just looks so much better), West techinques show that it's both viable and successful in producing a sound hull.

I would have loved to use birch for the sheet work on the hull of my build but the big problem, at least up my way, is getting a solid answer as to what type of glue was used in the manufacture and the exact source of the plywood to start with.

There is/was some fairly high quality stuff from Finland around that used Urea glue for their interior panels and Phenolic resin for the exterior (which meets the waterproof/boilproof standards in North America), but what I see commonly available now is BB graded panels, from former Soviet Union countries that may or may not follow the GOST standard (Russia's version of the APA over here).

I have found very little information on these but read (can't remember the source) that their "ext" grades are sometimes bonded with melamine glue. While that is a (somewhat decent) exterior glue, it usually does not meet both the of the WBP standards.

Since none of the suppliers in my area could confirm the panels at least meet the GOST guidelines, and the panels have no stamps other than the BB (face grade), I elected not to trust them.

I guess my bottom line is - if you have a reputable supplier that can confirm the sheets are bonded with Phenolic Resorcinol glue then go ahead and use them, otherwise, I wouldn't want to find out the hard way that it's not a true WBP exterior panel....

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Graham

Yes, Plywood is "real" wood

A "professional" is someone who gets paid for their work - it doesn't necessarily mean they are good at it

And post pictures.

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John Amundsen
Monte Carlo
Winter Haven, FL

Maybe it will be done by G6 and maybe not.

You know Graham, your posts on plywood are always some of the most informative posts on the subject I think I've seen on here. Thank you for sharing your knowlege.

I agree.

Thank you for that galamb. Yes, I have confirmed that this exterior plywood from Latvia (often called "Finish Birch plywood"), not Russia, is laminated with waterproof/boilproof phenolic resign.

I'll check out the West stringer securing techniques as well.

Thanks Oyster for the stringer locating and hand held palm router tips. Sounds easy enough.

Grampa Steve

I will add one more bit of (trivia) to my "blabbing" above -

When you are looking at (Russian) graded plywood, don't be surprised if one of the face veneers appears to be of "lower grade" than the stamp implies.

Russian plywood grades use a mix of the lettering systems from Europe and North America, but allowance for defects is somewhat different.

On our side of the "big lake" we have grades of N (suitable for natural finish - usually only seen on interior rated panels) then the A thru D ratings which most are familiar with.

In an APA rated sheet an A/A or A/B will be free of blemishes, knots and notable patches and repairs on both faces.

The European standard equivalent would be down to BB/BB grades.

In the Russian system, they allows for visible knots at the B grade and patching at the BB grade on one of the faces - so you will have one (good) face, which may have some very small, tight knots, but on the other side you will often see small "football" patches (of less than 1") which is not seen in APA ratings until you reach the C or C-plugged grades (A/C or A/C plugged are common at lumber yards with a sanded face and a plugged reverse side).

The GOST rating "CP", is 2 BB faces, one of which has football patches that are larger (than BB) and a noticably different colour (Canadian spelling) compared to the surrounding wood. This panel grade is often sold at a discount to the regular BB grade, but aside from cosmetics, has the same structural quality making it a more economical option than the regular BB.

(** I have never seen specs on a Russian "A" grade panel, nor do I even know if it actually exists in the North American marketplace)

While the small (or large) plugs do not affect the strength of the panel at all, they do result in a visible blemish. This isn't a problem if you are hiding the patched side of the panel or if you are laminating two panels together (just keep the patched faces toward each other) but something to be aware of when trying to determine the face quality.

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Graham

Yes, Plywood is "real" wood

A "professional" is someone who gets paid for their work - it doesn't necessarily mean they are good at it

Ok guys, here's my first attempt at frame#8. Took less than 2 minutes on the router. I hope you can open this quick video.

Cutting the rest tomorrow. Can get two frames per sheet. Wish me luck!

http://www.facebook.com/notes/mikey-you ... 3&comments

Grampa Steve

Man that's a fancy doober you got there.
What kind of Smoke n' Mirrors makes it stay on the lines?

Steve; Just a possible suggestion for your batten notches. How about setting up temporarily and marking the locations then cutting them on the CNC if that's what you really want to try?
If you do them in place with a router and guide, you'll need scrap backers to prevent tear-out on the ply.
I'm on dial up back here in the boondocks, so can't see your video....posts real pics when you can for us computer challenged
Doug