Problem with Super marine color chart

Gwoloshyn · **Posted:** Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:51 pm

Has anyone else noticed the Supermarine paint color charts "Lime" color is showing yellow? I emailed them about this a while back and they said they are working on fixing it. Up until now, it's still showing yellow. I want to get this color, but want to be sure I like what I'm getting.

DaveLott · **Posted:** Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:03 pm

The issue with the chart is that the samples are not large enough to truly guage the color. I was off on my selection. Others have experienced the same. I have asked SM if they would provide larger sample chips or actual samples. They stated they could not provide actual samples for the paint is mixed as a custom order. However, I believe they could come up with large single paint chips where our eyes are not decieved by the other colors on a chart.

I felt my color was more a bronze and ended up more orange. Ttownshaw was more red than expected and Vupilot was brighter blue than expected.

Feel your pain.

dave

jcallends · **Posted:** Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:52 am

Paint chips are an approximation at best. Like all the other chemicals we apply to our projects the best test is to apply in an inconspicuous area and then examine the results. Reminds me of when I judged scale RC airplanes. Builders would submit color photographs of the real aircraft as proof of scale which would result in an automatic zero in documentation. Color photographs actually start to change color from the moment they are produced. Paint chips probably do the same.

vupilot · **Posted:** Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:07 am

I sent them a large high quality photo of what color I wanted and asked them to suggest the best match, worked out pretty good.
The SM paints come in lots of colors which is nice and they are fairly simple to apply but I dont suggest the clear coat. Wish I simply varnished mine.

ttownshaw · **Posted:** Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:09 pm

Yep, their color chart stinks! It's best to send them a sample of the color you want and have them match it.

Iggy · **Posted:** Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:16 pm

The olive drab green was pretty much bang on.

All color charts suck IMO... they vary a lot based on the substrate and large 'actual' samples is generally what you need.. unfortunately SM does not offer this level of service, not sure if others do or not.

Whats the problem with SM Clear?

denbrlr · **Posted:** Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:05 am

Did anyone hear what the problem with SM clear is? See vupilot's post above.

DaveLott · **Posted:** Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:23 am

He was actually commenting that Supermarine does not offer large samples for their colors other than the chart. Practically everyone who has purchased from their chart find the color is off. So Vupilot is correct. Find what you want and send to them. They will match it.

tgauthier · **Posted:** Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:00 am

Chris,

Why don't you like the clear? I used varnish on my kayak and it is holding up real nice after 6 years but I don't leave it out in the sun. I use it, then cover it up. Varnish was a pain to work with. Orange peel was my biggest problem. I tried rolling, brush and spraying and it took me weeks and I never did get the finish I was hoping for.

http://www.flyballoons.net/kayak.htm

Ted
http://www.flyballoons.net/
http://tedsbuild.blogspot.com/

vupilot · **Posted:** Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:46 am

Ted,

I had the same problems with the SM clear that you had with varnish on your kayak. Remember, I have seen your kayak in person and the finish is easily twice as nice as my SM clear finish that I put just as much work into getting right. I think I sanded off and redid 7 coats of SM clear.
Plus, the SM clear is not nearly as hard as varnish. I had to recoat some floor planks already because shoes were breaking up the finish.
Its also still not known if SM clear holds up better or worse than varnish in prolonged UV exposure, might be a good test for me to conduct.
What put me over the edge though was seeing Todd Broadlicks finished Zip in person and talking with him as well as the other boats and owners at the Gathering. Todd used Epifanes varnish and it also took time and some wasted coats to get right just like I did with the SM. We seemed to have the same prep and labor in our finishes but his is stunning compared to the SM. I know you can wet sand and buff SM to get it as smooth as varnish but that doubles the labor and is not a skill a lot of amatuers are comfortable with. Sure, there will be a learning curve and some frustration with either product.
I'll be varnishing the kayak build in April and then I will have a direct comparison but from what I have seen over the past year, including your own kayak, you will have a durable and twice as smooth of finish with varnish from the can as compared to SM clear from the can.

Just my opinion and observations. I am not saying the SM is terrible, it just appears to me to take more work to get equal results. What I used to think was the latest, greatest thing a year ago, didnt turn out to be 100% satisfying and I just want to warn folks ahead of time to do their homework before they choose.
-CA

tgauthier · **Posted:** Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:52 am

Chris,

Thanks for your honest comments and thoughts. Now, I am rethinking the use of SM Clear. If you go to my blog I have several close up photos of all the problems that I had with with the SM Color. I was able to sand and polish the finish to a fantastic shine. The color on my boat is as smooth as glass with a great shine that looks and feels as nice as any sprayed and polished paint job. In the end, I was very happy with the SM Color. The problem that I have is that it took me weeks of hard work. I also used a gallon of paint because I had to resand and recoat more than 6 times to get that type of painted surface. With all that in mind, Varnish becomes a good option and I am now leaning that way instead of the SM Clear.

http://tedsbuild.blogspot.com/2010/03/he-comes-some-color.html

Scroll down to the bottom of the page to see the polished area.
http://tedsbuild.blogspot.com/2010/05/n ... -peel.html

Finished Color and Flip
http://tedsbuild.blogspot.com/2010/06/my-zip-flip.html

One of the reasons that I am thinking of Varnish again is that last summer I came across a guy who was refinishing his Chris Craft with Varnish ( I loved the look and shine ) and after a long conversation with him, "application is everything". His comments were, the thickness of the application and temperature of the varnish ( he heats the varnish for a better flow), and temp/hummity are the keys. I think that was part of the issue that I was having with varnish.

I don't think that once you use SM Clear that you can put varnish on top. If I did go with SM Clear then I don't think I could latter change my mind and apply Varnish. I don't like that idea if I don't like the SM Clear product.

If I use Varnish on all my wood area, I think I will need to be extremely careful not to get any on the SM Color that I have on the bottom of my Zip.

I have sent Super Marine Tech Support an email asking this question 2 weeks ago but they never responded. I will call them today because they are very helpful on the phone. I will ask about getting Varnish on the SM Color and I was also wondering how applying vinyl material on their product will affect it. I am planning on a vinyl boot strip and this could seperate the SM Color and the Varnish.

Ted
http://tedsbuild.blogspot.com/
http://www.FlyBalloons.net

DaveLott · **Posted:** Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:58 am

Ted - as a general rule you cannot apply a 2 part finish over a one part finish. The "activator" of the 2 part may causes blemishes in the underlying one part. So therefore, a 2 part "varnish" such as the Perfection Plus or Epiphanes should not be applied over Supermarine.

dave

tgauthier · **Posted:** Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:01 am

Thanks Dave....yep, that was also my understanding.

Glen-L.com

Problem with Super marine color chart

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