Composite Staples & Nails

What kind, options, etc.

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RAPTORnails&staples
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Composite Staples & Nails

Postby RAPTORnails&staples » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:10 am

This is my first time participating in a forum for boat builders. My company makes the RAPTOR composite staples and nails which are popular for boat building. We get a lot of inquiries regarding fasteners and the ability to cut, sand and stain without tool damage or aesthetic imperfections. Since boat builders make up a large segment of our customer base, we'd like to get in on some of your discussions and see what's important to all of you.

Oyster
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Re: Composite Staples & Nails

Postby Oyster » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:14 pm

Please tell us about the lengths of your staples and if they can be used in tortured positions of a hull to pull strips in strip planking tight against one another. Thanks.

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DaveLott
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Re: Composite Staples & Nails

Postby DaveLott » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:18 pm

What color choices are there that allow matching to stains? The opaque ones show as black dots.
Dave

Riviera build - the Midnight Cry Project
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kens
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Re: Composite Staples & Nails

Postby kens » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:12 pm

I need some samples in order to form a opinion.
Oak is over rated, everything about it takes extra time; then it warps, splits or checks !!! :roll:

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Composite Staples & Nails

Postby Bill Edmundson » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:17 pm

I need some samples in order to form a opinion.


I stole some of Dave's. I think they're great for some applications. They have their place!

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

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jamundsen
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Re: Composite Staples & Nails

Postby jamundsen » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:22 pm

I used the staples for all the laminations except the mahongany finish lamination. They were stonger than the steel ones as long as you didnt side load them.
John Amundsen
Monte Carlo
Lakeland,Fl

Work tends to get in the way of boat building

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sunflounder
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Re: Composite Staples & Nails

Postby sunflounder » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:06 am

I recently took the plunge for one of the pricey guns and sample set of brads. Not actually using them yet but found one of the advertised weaknesses to be something of a strength.
The Raptor folks say the pulling max load on the staples is greater than most brads but the shear strength is pretty weak. The nice part of this is that you can temporarily fasten things (as in tacking down your frames to patterns) and release them with a sharp lateral rap. My testing seems to work out great with a nice break at the surface and no need to pull out remains as you can work the brads with wood tools.
Of course I haven't started building with them yet (just bought my Fancy Free plans this week) but have high hopes to skip those impossible ring shank nails in future constructs (i'll be counting on epoxy for shear strength with screws for back up).
By the way, they are great to work with prompt and knowledgeable and have a return if not satisfied policy.

DaveA

RAPTORnails&staples
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Re: Composite Staples & Nails

Postby RAPTORnails&staples » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:54 am

Oyster wrote:Please tell us about the lengths of your staples and if they can be used in tortured positions of a hull to pull strips in strip planking tight against one another. Thanks.


Hi Oyster. I'm not quite sure what you mean by tortured positions but if you are referring to the areas of high curvature in the hull, you would just need to use additional staples to hold the strips. Our 19Ga staples come in three leg lengths, 1/4", 3/8" & 9/16". Our 16Ga staples come in lengths 3/8" & 9/16".

RAPTORnails&staples
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Re: Composite Staples & Nails

Postby RAPTORnails&staples » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:04 am

DaveLott wrote:What color choices are there that allow matching to stains? The opaque ones show as black dots.


Hi Dave, You use our brad nails in your boats, right? Would you happen to have any photos that show the dots up close that we could take a look at? Are the brads staining darker than the areas around them? That is unusual because our natural color fasteners accept most stains well. Fasteners are available in colors such as brown, redwood, cedar, weathered...

RAPTORnails&staples
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Re: Composite Staples & Nails

Postby RAPTORnails&staples » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:15 am

kens wrote:I need some samples in order to form a opinion.


Ken, We can send you samples. If you don't have access to the tool you can demo one for trial. We just need more information about your application.

Grampa Steve
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Re: Composite Staples & Nails

Postby Grampa Steve » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:20 pm

We're using these staples on our barrel back runabout build and I love them. We're almost done with the plywood cold forming where they're simply amazing. They sand smooth with little effort and show the stringer location when applying the next layer.
I plan to use them for the mahogany veneer step over the top of strapping tape, and yank the heads off after cure. We'll see.

Grampa Steve
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Re: Composite Staples & Nails

Postby Grampa Steve » Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:22 pm

Well we chickened out using the plastic staples for the mahogany veneer. I thought the more expensive plastic staples would leave visible "dots" everywhere on our beautiful finished (hopefully) top sides.

Instead we used small Arrow brand steel brads over thin plywood strips using an electric brad gun. The plywood strips didn't always remove the brads when pried off, so several extra hours were dedicated at pulling the brads out. Many were more than stubborn and broke off, so now remain for eternity.

Near the end of this step we finally tried the plastic staples on one small repair area before sanding. After sanding, staining and applying the CPES sealer there was no staple evidence whatsoever on the mahogany.

We now regret the change over to brads on the topsides, and would have saved tons of time with the plastic staples. Next time (if there is one) we wont even use the thin protective wooden strips, as the sanding process we used would have removed the staple heads anyway.

Just FYI

Live a little, learn a lot.

Grampa Steve

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Re: Composite Staples & Nails

Postby wbbaer » Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:36 pm

I used the 15 ga. Raptor brads to fasten the two outer layers of 4mm meranti ply and the veneer layer. The first ply layer was fastened to frames and battens, etc. with 3/4" bronze square drive wood screws. The Raptor brad heads are almost invisible in the stained, epoxied and fiberglassed brightwork. I used around 20,000 brads so far in the completed hull. They are a great product. They hold steeply curved ply strips if you use enough of them. I haven't tried the staples.
Bill

Built a Monaco named: Princess

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DaveLott
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Re: Composite Staples & Nails

Postby DaveLott » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:00 am

Interesting. My count was 21000 of the brads

My brads tips did show as little black dots on the stained areas. But since I used dark stain for my topsides, you have to look for them to find them. I don't have any on the non-stained areas. I did a test first and they show. The ones I used are opaque. I understand they have some brown ones now which would probably blend better.
Dave

Riviera build - the Midnight Cry Project
Glen-L Sea Kayak
Mahalo Standup Paddleboard

Video of Midnight in Action

Few things in the world measure up to the thrill and satisfaction of boating in a boat that you built.

RAPTORnails&staples
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Re: Composite Staples & Nails

Postby RAPTORnails&staples » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:16 pm

Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences with the RAPTOR staples, brads and finish nails. As many of you know, the composite fasteners will not rust or corrode nor will they damage sanding belts or saws. They are easy to sand flush to a surface (or away if its a staple crown). This also means that you do not have to countersink your nails and then come back and putty over the holes. You eliminate so much labor and time.

The nails have such a fine head diameter or shank diameter that they are nearly invisible. No worries about ugly "dots" in your stained wood surfaces.

To determine the correct length of fastener to use, we always say the shorter the better. Composite nails hold 2X stronger than steel. We say that you only need about 3/8" penetration into your base material to achieve maximum holding power. When you combine this with the fact that you will be using marine adhesive, any penetration between 1/4" and 3/8" is great. So, if you use an 18G brad and you want to nail a 1/4" strip, we suggest a brad that is 5/8" long. You can leave it slightly up and sand it smooth and be done!

I will be attending the WoodenBoat School in Maine next week. I will be building a row boat with Clint Chase and we will be using RAPTOR products throughout the week. Take the journey with Patrick! During his 6-day course Patrick will upload daily blog videos, photos and posts to journal his experiences at the school. Would you like to follow him on his learning journey? Just reply to raptornails@gmail.com and you will receive email notifications when Patrick uploads new photos, videos or blog posts.


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