Glen-L.com

I used the transfer paper from Glen-L to copy the pattern to the wood. I used a glass cutting tool instead of the pen or pencil to transfer the pattern. I had a local Kinkos copy the patterns and make mirror images so I could lay out the frames on them. Wax paper also works over the plans and patterns to keep parts from gluing to them.

Roberta

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Roberta
Built Zip "Oliver IV" and Super Spartan "Jimmy 70"

I tend to agree with Oyster on the wood issue. They should take the wood back and exchange it for different materials. They should pay the shipping. I ordered from world panel and got some hydrotech instead of the okume I had been working with. I actuallyl ordered the hydrotech. I didnt care for it and asked them to exchange it for the Okume when it came in and they did with no question and it wasnt even their fault. When I ordered my shaft the company sent me the wrong one. (actually two) When I called them they gave me a 15% discount and got the ordered fixed up promtly. thats how its supposed to work.

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John Amundsen
Monte Carlo
Winter Haven, FL

Maybe it will be done by G6 and maybe not.

I admit to being at a loss here gang.

On the one hand, I have some members of a boatbuilding community, whom I have quickly come to admire and respect, telling me, stone-cold newbie boatbuilder, that I have a panel or two unfit for use in a boat.

On the other hand, I have the very experts which that community lead me to telling me that all is well, it's just a bit heavier due to inner core species (which is still an appropriate marine wood).

To go one way is to call the experts, tell them the advice I'm getting, and ask for an exchange of one or two panels which cost $40 each. To facilitate the exchange will cost that company in excess of $300. That's about what I paid for the whole order (minus shipping). Clearly, they will not want to do this as there is no money to be made in it, but plenty to lose. Furthermore, they will likely just referrence the technical information the supplier gave them. (However, I may be wrong here. They may decide that the referals from this community are worth this unfortunate expense.)

To go the other way is to strategically place a couple of heavier panels on my boat and hope it doesn't ruin the whole works.

As a naturally conflict avoidant person, I try not to make too many waves, but I don't wish to be viewed as a fool either--especially by those whose council I will seek frequently over the next 12-18 months... Those who will guide and ultimately judge my eventual offering to the world of wooden boats.

What to do...

I will attatch the email chain text from Houston Hardwoods, so you can read it for yourselves. You need to read each entry from the bottom up to keep it linear. It the mean time, I'll email Guy and ask him if exchange at their expense is even an option.

The response is below from our importer.

The species was different-not the manufacturing process- so it should work (fiberglass) exactly the same.

You already seem to understand the importance of balancing the boat’s weight, so that should be your biggest concern, not delamming or adhering problems.

Good Luck-

Guy










--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Luke Wolstenholme

Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 11:43 AM
To: 'Tim McCoy'
Subject: RE: Hydrotek weight



Tim,



Some of our older inventory did have some Keruing in the core. We have told the mill that they should not do this, and they must only use Keruing for the faces, as using it in the core would add excessive weight to the panel.


I don’t think we should see much of this problem going forward.



Regards,
Luke















From: Tim McCoy [mailto:timm@houstonhardwoods.com]
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:08 AM
To: Wolstenholme
Subject: Hydrotek weight



Luke



I had a customer buy some 6mm Hydrotek and he claims one of them seemed heavier so he weighed them and he had one that weighed 40 pounds, one that weighed 36 and the others weighed around 23. Any explanation as to why there would be so much difference?



Tim McCoy

Houston Hardwoods Inc.

713-686-6176

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Andy Garrett

"When all else fails, follow the instructions." -Dad

to tell you the truth they should make it right and eat the cost of shipping the one piece that is supper light unusable do to nothing really balance it with

_________________
Don't be afraid to attempt anything. You might surprise your self in the attempt.
http://www.facebook.com/Home.Made.Boat.Building
Modified Jubilee-"Wild Flower" 40' house boat
14' Mr John-Wild Flower 2
32' Supper Huck- Wild flower 3

Rod H

I am not attempting to stir the pot. Thats something I just don't do. I have not looked back to see the number of sheets in question. But for the sake of customers relations the smartest thing for them to do is to simply ship you the equvilant number of sheets if its just a couple and let you just keep the sheets to do whatever you wish to do with it. What I also wonder at this point is how many other sheets have been sent out, especially for builds like Kayaks or simple sailing prams or skiffs. The difference is huge for portable boats and boats that are designed around being liteweight. Nuff here, good luck

Let me bring this back to the forefront. Its actually worse than I thought after the fact. This is not acceptable. I see an increase of on average of 10 to 50 percent on several sheets in raw materials weight when adding the total weights. I wonder about the 18 lb sheet. Thats way under for such a thickness too.

36
18
30
30
22
34
26
22

I wrote:

Guy,

I understand the issue and thank you for your inquiries. That being said, this is a small runabout boat. Wieght and product consistency is important in this project.

I hate to ask, but is exchanging the two anomolously heavy pieces (at no expense to me) even an option?

Andy Garrett

He wrote:

I can’t see how that would be possible.


There you have it. I'll build my boat with the panels I was sent. Either way, I will share my experiences concerning Houston Hardwoods and their products--for better or worse. We live and learn. Now, back to building my boat...

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Andy Garrett

"When all else fails, follow the instructions." -Dad

Word of mouth travels very quickly over the internet. Perhaps you should refer them to this thread. Last year, I built a Chessapeake Light Craft kayak using their kit. I received some ragged Okoume panels. I sent them some photos and they were on it quickly.

_________________
2011 MALAHINI - KICKED IN THE HEAD

I wake up with a 16ft woody every morning
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=534DBtp1Cnc
Website: https://sites.google.com/site/2011malahini/

Its really nice to have a dependable source on the west side of the Miss River. World Panel as John speaks about goes way beyond their sales to insure that the consumer is satisfied. While none of us have a crystal ball to look inside of the plywoods these days, when we spot an issue there is nothing wrong with pointing the problems out. We are all humans and fail all the times. But we must also make every attempt to make amends each and every day when we fall short.

I would like to think that we can continue to pursue the proper materials and depend on what some small guidlines are in place across the board, so that after we finish these projects we can depend on the boat doing as expected and as sold and represented by Glen l too. People can say well its only a few pounds here and there. Well we also know that we also add a few pounds here and there and we know how we ourselves perform too after additional weights too. Transfer this notion to a so called portable hull, or cartoppers too.

Small runabouts, rowing skiffs and even sailing prams are pretty dependant on weight when working in conjunction with their proposed power plants as also listed on this site to also make Glen L proud too hopefully doing what is sold to one and all by Glen L.

Andy I didnt mean to start or create an issue. I just think they should stand behind what they sell. Having said that you will most likely be OK with your build. Guys have built these things out of standard 1/4 ply and ran them hard for a long time.

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John Amundsen
Monte Carlo
Winter Haven, FL

Maybe it will be done by G6 and maybe not.

Andy, I understand about being conflict-avoidant, but the simple fact (As I can see from what we read here) is that you were not supplied with what you paid for. You paid for a specific kind of wood, expecting a certain level of quality and consistency, and this was not delivered. For the kind of money you are investing in this project, you should in no way have to make compromises to your build because of a supplier's inability to perform quality control. Even though it will work, you are making a compromise in your planning and execution, complicating an already difficult project. As an amateur builder, you also may risk compromising the performance of your boat if, by chance, the balance isn't right. Again, because you are working around a vendors quality issues. If they are not willing to exchange the wood, they should at least be willing to credit you the amount of wood that was incorrectly and neglegently included in your order.

In these cases, never ask "if it would be okay". Especially if you are communicating via email, simply and respectfully demand that this is unacceptable. Show that you are willing to work with them, but at the same time, demand satisfaction.

How about:

Thanks for your response. In retrospect, I can't see how I can use the heavier sheet material without either over-complicating the execution of my build or possibly risking the performance of my boat by making a mistake in balancing. I cannot accept a mixed shipment. Please contact me with a plan to replace the erroneous material or credit me the difference.

See how that goes.....

It's amazing the damage that a bit of free BAD advertising about a company can do.....

Sorry, got carried away....

_________________
Ken Hundley
http://www.nocturnalguitars.com

So, my big brother was playing guitar and I figured I'd try it too.
- Stevie Ray Vaughan

Andy,

sorry you're going through this with HH's. I've worked with Guy and Tim in the past and had good experiences. I'm going to send Tim a note (he's the president) and let him know a good group of guys will be recommending sending their business elsewhere in the future.

_________________
Bill

I told my wife we needed a three-car garage for my projects...she told me to ask her for permission next time before I buy a house.
http://www.unitybuild.net

I sent this:

Guy,

As a new boatbuilder dealing with a potential performance issue, I have leaned on the advice of others in the boatbuilding community for guidance in this matter as I have since I first considered undertaking this project. This is in fact, the same group that led me to Houston Hardwoods when I could find no one in my area to supply my needs. They continue to express great concern with the product consistency in this case and (through the Glen-L forums) have implored me to give you one additional opportunity to make this situation right. With over 750 people reading the exchanges and over 70 opinions on my various issues registered, there is a belief that even if such inconsistency works on my boat, it may seriously jeapardize the efforts of someone building a smaller craft, or something built for ultra high-performance.

In any case, I have complete strangers offering to send me replacement panels at their expense to convince me that I should not use what you sold me. These are boatbuilding experts. I will not accept this kindness as it is taking advantage, and not their problem to fix. However, I will be forced to purchase replacements if you refuse service in this matter.

I hope you see the value in maintaining an excellent reputation with this community.

Respectfully,
Andy Garrett

We'll see how it goes. What a mess, ehh?

_________________
Andy Garrett

"When all else fails, follow the instructions." -Dad

Andy,

WOW! I can't believe that there is that much difference between your sheets. But more to the point, I can't believe that they have not tried anything to make it right. In one of the emails that you posted they even admitted that there was a problem with there supplier and that it led to "excessive weight". Excessive being the key word!


I think Ken and Oyster are correct in that the problem should be corrected. These boats are plenty of work and a lot of pride goes into building them and you do not want to end up second guessing whether you should have done more. HH is trying to put the problem that they are having with their supplier onto their customers.

I am interested to see how they respond to your last email. I can't believe that it would cost them more to make it right than they will lose in future sales. I for one will keep this thread bookmarked for future reference for people looking for suppliers.

Good luck.

_________________
Jeremy

Hope is NOT a plan.

I'll just be happy to get back to boatbuilding. This kind of thing sucks the fun out of it all, ya'know.

My first building experience is off to a rocky start.

_________________
Andy Garrett

"When all else fails, follow the instructions." -Dad