Glen-L.com

Might as well start this fun discussion
Here is the link to the original:

http://www.nmsc.gov.au/media/pages_medi ... 0Boats.pdf

This discussion is about what parts of our Glen-L designs will or will not comply with this standard. Naturally I will bring up inboard as I am building Gentry, but feel free to bring up other designs. Hopefully it will help or at least prepare Aussie builders.

Initial concerns are:
Australian Builders Plate
Craft Identification Number (CIN)
Swamped Flotation - either basic or level
Maximum power - (inboard or outboard are differnet considerations)
Maximum Load capacity
Maximum persons capacity
Provision of seating and standing positions
Hull drainage
Windshields and windows
Boat Hardware and Fittings
Stability
Fire Protection - port for fire extinguisher to be discharged into engine compartment
Owners Manual

I intend to post a comment on these each in turn so a single post isn't overwhelmed. The only other way is a fixed document, but then nobody else can comment.

_________________
By the time I have built a boat, I'll be ready to build a boat....

Australian Builders Plate.

This is what the plate looks like:


In most states (except NT) all boats must now have an ABP fitted when sold/registered. The site details the applicable law for each State. Part of the information is an HIN, or Hull Identifiication Number, which is obtained separately. In some cases this can just be a build date in place of the HIN, however getting the boat registered may require the HIN.
This is pretty self explanatory, so not much to discuss here.
This is the original site for information:
http://www.nmsc.gov.au/recreational_boa ... =24&CID=24
The FAQ pdf explains it in basics as well:
http://www.nmsc.gov.au/media/pages_medi ... _Jan11.pdf

_________________
By the time I have built a boat, I'll be ready to build a boat....

Swamped Flotation - either basic or level

When totally swamped, the boat must either float with at least some part above the water so (previous) occupants can hang on to stay afloat, or preferably float totally level with occupants still aboard so they are safe and can potentially bail out the craft.

The builder or manufacturer must prove this either by calculation, or by practical test (can you imagine purposely sinking one of our creations to see if it floats ). Mr. HotRod has kindly provided a base spreadsheet which does most of the calculations for you after inputting the various values required. If you need to do it, I am sure a PM will obtain the necessary. We think that presentation of this spreadsheet with appropriate details should satisfy the inspectors.

_________________
By the time I have built a boat, I'll be ready to build a boat....

Craft Identification Number (CIN)

I can't access AS 4393 without purchasing it. However, I think it specifies that a planing hull must be identified with symobols not less than 200mm high in a contrasting colour displayed on each side of the hull. This is certainly the requirement for registration in Queensland and I think it ties in to the standard, but I stand to be corrected.

It galls me to have to splatter 200mm high (8") registration across a shiny bright timber boat.

_________________
By the time I have built a boat, I'll be ready to build a boat....

Track,

You need not worry about AS4393 or a CIN. This is what As4393 is about:

Scope
This International Standard establishes a coding system to achieve identification of any small craft hull, concerning
- identification code of the country;
- identification code of the manufacturer;
- serial number;
- month and year of production;
- model year.
It applies to small craft of all types and materials, of length of hull of up to 24 m. It does not apply to beach or bathing toys.

Abstract
Specifies a coding system for the identification of small craft hulls. The system identifies the country of manufacture, the manufacturer, the serial number, month and year of manufacture and model year. Identical with and has been reproduced from ISO 10087:1995.


When I registered my Cabin Skiff (in Mackay) all that was required was that it had an identifying number which you as the builder can allocate (mine was CJM002, being the second hull from my workshop). The Motor Rego allocate a SIN (Serial Identification Number) which is how they handle all machines and vehicles that dont have a VIN like that found on cars.

Also, there was no "inspectors" - I had the CS surveyed by a Marine Surveyor because the insurance companies require it as some-one has to ascertain the value for insurance purposes. Once I had survey, rego was easy, took about 40 minutes at the local motor vehicles office. The main thing is to have proof of purchase particularly for the engine and trailer and high $$ items.

On the rego form there there is a question whether this it's a "Motor Boat" or "Speed Boat" - not sure what the difference is but I called the CS a Motor Boat. I think it's likely things will be harder if you call yours a Speed Boat.

Rgds

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Worse things happen at sea. That's why we build boats.

Blueprint,

Good to see i am not the only one here in north Queensland. My name is Jamie and i live at Sarina (Dont hold that against me) i am building the 23ft Belle Isle. Have just started.
Are there any other Glenl Builders up this way that you know of?
Nice little shower of rain we are having??? Lucky the shed is dry.

Jamie

I have pulled out some of the more interesting parts that would likely pertain to our craft. I am not at all sure just who must comply with this standard, but likely to get insurance (Club Marine advised me of this on the phone).

Edit:
NMSC also has a relationship with Standards Australa to assist in the maintenance of the AS1799 series of standards covering aspects of the safe design and construction of small recreational boats. Compliance with any Australian Standard is not mandatory unless the standard is specifically referenced in a regulatory instrument. Compliance with certain elements of AS1799 provides one of several different options to meet legal obligations under the National Standard for the Australian Builders Plate for Recreational Boats and the National Standard for Commercial Vessels; but in general, the AS1799 suite of standards simply provides informative guidance about good safety practice.
From:http://www.nmsc.gov.au/recreational_boating/index.php?MID=26&COMID=1&CID=26


Excerpts from the standard at:
http://www.nmsc.gov.au/media/pages_media_files/files/AS1799%20Small%20Craft%20-%20Part%2012-General%20Requirements%20for%20Power%20Boats.pdf

1.1 SCOPE

This Standard sets out requirements for maximum load, persons and power capacities, and
for reserve buoyancy, stability, fire protection, testing of power boats and other safety
aspects for craft up to 15 m in overall length used as recreational boats. It does not apply to
boats used for commercial purposes or exclusively for racing, nor to canoes, kayaks,
inflatable boats, rigid inflatable boats, yachts or auxiliary yachts.

1.4.1.1 Australian Builders Plate
Boats shall be fitted with an Australian Builders Plate in accordance with the National
Standard for the Australian Builders Plate for Recreational Boats. The maximum power,
load and persons capacity shown on the plate shall not be greater than that determined in
accordance with this Standard.

1.4.2 Hull identification
A unique craft identification number (CIN) complying with AS 4393 shall be permanently
and legibly marked on the hull. (I think this is like a Rego and is different to the HIN, which Queensland Transport gave me to put on the hull somewhere in woplaces, one hidden and one not)


2.1.2 Outboard installations
The maximum load capacity for boats up to and including 6 m in length shall be calculated
in kilograms, and shall be determined by calculating or measuring the cubic capacity below
the static float plane, converting this volume to the mass of water it would displace,
subtracting the mass of the boat, including the filled mass of any installed fuel tanks, and
allowing 1 kg of load capacity for each 5 kg of remaining displacement.
NOTE: A suitable method of calculation is given in Paragraph A2 of Appendix A.
For boats with a maximum power capacity not greater than 1.5 kW, an allowance of 1 kg of
load capacity for each 3 kg of remaining displacement may be used.

2.1.3 Inboard installations
The maximum load capacity for boats up to and including 6 m in length shall be calculated
in kilograms, and shall be determined by calculating or measuring the cubic capacity of the
boat below the static float plane, converting this volume to the mass of water it would
displace, subtracting the mass of the boat, excluding the mass of the engine, fuel tank and
fuel, allowing 1 kg of boat load capacity for each 5 kg of remaining displacement, and
finally subtracting the mass of the engine, fuel tank and fuel to obtain the maximum load
capacity.
NOTE: A suitable method of calculation is given in Paragraph A3 of Appendix A.

2.2 MAXIMUM PERSONS CAPACITY FOR PROTECTED WATERS

2.2.1 General
The maximum persons capacity provides a quick guide to the number of adults that can be
safely carried when operating in protected waters. It is derived using an average value for
the mass of a passenger and the allowance for the mass of ancillary equipment and personal
gear on board.


2.2.2 Outboard installations
The maximum persons capacity (C) for boats up to 6 m in length shall be stated as the
number of average adults and shall be determined by the following method:
(a) Take the maximum load capacity and subtract the assumed mass of the largest
outboard motor (including controls) for which the boat is rated including the mass of
batteries, obtained from Table 2.1. For boats without installed fuel tanks, also
subtract the mass of the portable fuel tank and fuel as shown in Column 4 of
Table 2.1.
(b) Divide the result by 90 kg, and take the lower whole number, thus obtaining the
maximum number of average size adults.

2.2.3 Inboard installations
The maximum persons capacity (C) shall be determined by taking the maximum load
capacity, dividing by 90 kg and taking the lower whole number, thus obtaining the
maximum number of average size adults.

2.4 PROVISION OF SEATING AND STANDING POSITIONS
A seating or standing position for use while the boat is under way shall be provided for
each person based on the maximum persons capacity. Standing positions shall be at least
450 mm wide and shall be provided with sturdy handholds appropriate to the conditions
likely to be experienced based on the speed and operational area of the boat (see
Clause 3.11.4). Seating positions shall be on the basis of 475 mm of seating width per
person.

2.5 SWAMPED FLOTATION

2.5.1 Minimum swamped flotation
All boats, except those over 6 m in length that are fully enclosed and meet the requirements
of Clause 2.5.5, shall be provided at least with basic flotation when swamped in the form of
flotation material (closed-cell plastics or equivalent) or air chambers.
Basic flotation shall be demonstrated by a practical test or by calculation using a
hydrostatic program. For basic flotation, at least some portion of the hull shall remain
above water when the boat is swamped in a condition of maximum persons capacity (as
nominated on the Australian Builders Plate), when fitted with the largest motor for which
the boat is rated (for outboard engine boats), and with all ancillary equipment and gear in
their normal position.

2.5.4 Level flotation
In addition to meeting the requirements of Clause 2.5.1 for minimum swamped flotation,
boats less than 6 m in length should desirably be provided with level flotation. Where a
claim of level flotation is made, the boat shall pass all of the tests when tested in
accordance with Appendix C.
NOTE: A suitable method for estimating the amount of flotation material needed to provide level
flotation in open boats is given in Paragraph B4 of Appendix B. However, this needs to be
verified by a practical test in accordance with Appendix C.

2.6 MAXIMUM POWER CAPACITY

2.6.1 Determination of maximum power capacity (outboard installations)
The maximum power capacity of boats, other than pontoon boats, shall be stated in
kilowatts and shall be determined by the following method (see Table 2.2):

2.6.4 Determination of maximum power capacity (inboard and sterndrive
installations)
The maximum power capacity for inboard and sterndrive installations shall be determined
by test in accordance with Clause 5.2.3.

3.8 WINDSHIELD AND WINDOWS
The windshield and windows shall comply with the following requirements:
(a) The windshield and windows shall be of safety glass or laminated safety glass
complying with AS/NZS 2080, or a material having at least equivalent safety
characteristics on fracture to those specified in AS/NZS 2080.

3.11.2 Bow eye
Each trailerable boat shall be fitted with a bow eye or other fitting suitable for use in towing
by other craft, or for attachment to the bow post of a trailer. The bow eye shall be able to
withstand a direct tensile load equivalent to twice the weight of the fully loaded boat. The
bow eye shall be located above the waterline and shall be through-fastened with bolts or
welded to the stem. Where such eyes are not accessible from within the boat in adverse
weather or because of raked stems or for other reasons, an additional towing point,
accessible from within the boat, shall be provided.

5.2.3 Maximum power capacity and general seaworthiness
Where the maximum power capacity is to be determined by test, the requirements in
Appendix F shall apply. The maximum power capacity determined by calculation in
accordance with Clauses 2.6.1 or 2.6.2 may be adjusted in accordance with Appendix F.

6.1 PORTABLE FIRE EXTINGUISHERS

6.1.1 Selection
The type of fire extinguishers to be carried on a boat shall be appropriate to the type of fires
likely to be encountered.
NOTE: Guidance on the selection of suitable fire extinguishers is given in AS 2444, and in
Appendix G.
6.1.2 General
All boats that are powered by a motor should carry at least one extinguisher of rating not
less than 5B.
6.1.3 Large tanks
Boats that use petrol and have fuel tanks of capacity greater than 25 litres should carry at
least one extinguisher of rating not less than 20B.


6.3 INBOARD ENGINE COMPARTMENTS
On inboard boats where an automatic fire extinguishing system is not installed, provision
shall be made so that a portable fire extinguisher can be discharged into the engine space
while the engine cover remains closed.


7.1 GENERAL
Each boat shall be provided with an owners manual that adequately addresses the safety
issues set out in Clause 7.2. The level of detail should be appropriate to the size of the boat
and the level of equipment installed.

_________________
By the time I have built a boat, I'll be ready to build a boat....

This is quite a good document on buoyancy in pleasure boats:
http://www.nmsc.gov.au/media/pages_media_files/files/buoyancy_in%20trailerboatsUpdate_nov11.pdf

_________________
By the time I have built a boat, I'll be ready to build a boat....

Greetings from a brand new member to the forum area.

Through the accidents of history, I ended up providing significant technical support to local boatbuilders (some of this funded!) at the time of the introduction of the Australian Builders Plate a few years ago. This resulted in my writing a Guide to the Australian Builders Plate.

The ABP calls for particulars of compliance to be assessed to AS 1799.1, ABYC or ISO. Most local builders opted for AS 1799; the others are more applicable for boats imported into Australia, or Australian built boats going into export markets. Responsibility for integrity of the ABP data rests with the boatbuilder (or importer). I do not know of any current regular or audit inspection for fitting of ABP (or compliance with declared particulars) here in WA. However, individual complaints are addressed. The person first registering the boat declares that an ABP is fitted (where applicable), and also provides HIN (I believe by copy of the provider's document).

Maximum persons number in trailable boats is usually controlled by (As 1799 open or sheltered waters) stability compliance

Separate to the fitting of the ABP (which is required for registration of the boat) is the Hull Identification Number HIN. This is unique to the vessel; is issued by a registered HIN provider, and typically appears on the ABP, as well as permanently attached to the vessel hull.

Yet another number comes in for registered (powered) boats. This is (alpha-) numeric, and appears in large characters on the side of the boat. It is issued on first registration of the boat with the State Government registration (marine safety) authority, and normally stays with the vessel. It closely parallels the Motor Vehicle Registration Plate (number plate) on cars, etc.

I hope this is of some clarification to other Aussies.

Moderator - I haven't picked up on the etiquette within this group. However, please feel free to pass on my e-mail contact to contributors to this topic who could benefit from direct e-mail interchange to resolve their issues. Please deal with as you see fit - e-mail contact to me welcome.

I have yet to set up a website in support of my practice. However, I can be found on both LinkedIn and Facebook.

This is an invaluable thread. Prior to joining the forum and buying plans I did a fair amount of research and reading to see what legislative obstacles I'd confront whilst trying to register my project in NSW. It seemed to me that whilst there was an adoption of NMSC guidelines by all states, there was one piece of text in NSW legislation that looked like it may throw a spanner in the works. From the link at the bottom, much of what is written is already covered on the NSW Maritime Services site and NMSC except this extract;

47   Persons authorised to approve information on builders plates

For the purposes of this Part, the information on a builders plate fixed to or to be fixed to a vessel may only be approved by any of the following persons:
(a)  the builder of the vessel so long as the builder of the vessel is not an owner builder,


What is comforting is that there has been a few Glen L NSW registrations since that legislation has been written. I plan to copy specs from the Glen L site regarding info for the ABP, in my case the Malahini, and state Basic Flotation to avoid a "prove it" demand.

In any case, from anyone I've heard from or read about that has registered a Glen L or other owner built boat in NSW, has said the process is fairly painless. I'll be happy to share my experiences when the day comes but I have to build the darn thing first.

http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fragv ... 9+pt.3+0+N

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Building a Malahini.......one day

Hi All,

I know this topic has been dead for awhile, but hopefully someone in the know is still lurking around these parts. I'm just looking to put an ABP on my Dragonfly, and am trying to figure out which Standard to use. As the Glen L plans already specify maximum outboard size, etc, I was hoping to figure out which Standard was used in developing the plans, so that I could cite that one.

Does anyone know what Standard Glen L use to determine the outboard size, displacement, etc? Is it possibly the ABYC Standard or ISO Standard?

Cheers,
James

your best bet would be contact glen-l for that info you can do it by email.

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Don't be afraid to attempt anything. You might surprise your self in the attempt.
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Modified Jubilee-"Wild Flower" 40' house boat
14' Mr John-Wild Flower 2
32' Supper Huck- Wild flower 3

Rod H